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Ujvári Ádám
Location: Hungary Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Tue 14 May, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: " Basecap" Bascinet Helmet |
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Hi everybody!
I found this picture and i saw this type of helmet in the Battle of the Nations a lot of, but i know nothing about this. Anybody have any information about it?
Thanks!
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Jeffrey Faulk
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| Posted: Tue 14 May, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: |
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My guess is that it is a modern design derived from the burgonet helmet as much as the older bascinet design. The heavy bill on the burgonet is useful for facial protection as it can help stop blades from hitting your face, as well as giving some rigidity to the forehead.
I am fairly sure there were never any bascinets with a 'beak' like this... burgonets, on the other hand, have it as an essential part of their design. In fact, if it were not for the mail aventail, I would call this a burgonet rather than a bascinet.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional
Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
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Ujvári Ádám
Location: Hungary Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3
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Jeffrey Faulk
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| Posted: Tue 14 May, 2013 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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And there's some egg on my face 
To be fair, though, both your links show the exact same image. If this isn't a fake, then it's certainly an interesting specimen... possibly an one-off, though?
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional
Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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| Posted: Wed 15 May, 2013 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Any images of such bascinets with aventails? Would be good to collect them here.
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Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional
Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Posts: 296
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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| Posted: Wed 15 May, 2013 4:20 am Post subject: |
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There is a theory that on that particular bascinet the bill was likely attached much later than the helmet itself was made. I am most interested in the pictorial evidence. So far I have seen quite a lot of burgonet-like helmets, but all of them are depicted either being worn without any face protection at all or with a bevor. And most of them seem to either have a rudimentary "tail" or flare out like some Italian salades and barbutas.
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Asger Kjćrgaard
Location: Odense, Denmark Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu 24 Oct, 2013 6:29 am Post subject: |
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To poke the topic again - the "historical" specimen should be at this museum:
http://www.musees-valais.ch/musee-dhistoire.html
under the museum inventory No.: MV 24-83
I find it odd that this particular specimen is not noted in the article on this site:
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_bascinet.html
since the the article referes to the museum
| Quote: | | One in the Museum of Valais, Sion (MV30-83 German) |
I'm voting fake as well - tho for the interest i'd like to know if anyone can do something with the inventory number.
I have tried reaching the museum via mail without luck, so if anyone can clear this one i'd be happy
Asger Kjćrgaard
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Thu 24 Oct, 2013 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Asger Kjćrgaard wrote: | To poke the topic again - the "historical" specimen should be at this museum:
http://www.musees-valais.ch/musee-dhistoire.html
under the museum inventory No.: MV 24-83
I find it odd that this particular specimen is not noted in the article on this site:
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spot_bascinet.html
since the the article referes to the museum
| Quote: | | One in the Museum of Valais, Sion (MV30-83 German) |
I'm voting fake as well - tho for the interest i'd like to know if anyone can do something with the inventory number.
I have tried reaching the museum via mail without luck, so if anyone can clear this one i'd be happy |
The myArmoury article cites clear examples of a particular regional or developmental specimens of bascinets. There is no reason they would have included a common bascinet shell that had been modified later to extend its working life. Whether it was modified to resemble a burgonet or simply to add the brim that many Italian celata had is the question worth pursuing.
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Ujvári Ádám
Location: Hungary Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3
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Aleksei Sosnovski
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| Posted: Thu 12 Dec, 2013 12:41 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't call it a bascinet. It's more like a deep celata with a pointed scull. Note the flared lower edge and no aventail. And the aventail is the key point here. This image proves what has been said before: celatas and early "bourgonets" with either open face or a bevor - yes, bascinets with aventails - no.
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This is a standard topic