Hilt for felddegen, walloon or something similar -- myArmoury.com

Viktor Abrahamson

Not sure about the terminology about these swords.
It´s been discussed in this thread about Walloon swords: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=felddegen

I´m working on a hilt inspired from one I saw in another thread here at myArmoury.
The one a saw was this one:

From this thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=felddegen

Anyway I fell in love with it and wanted something similar.
This is the current state of the hilt, which is slowly taking form.

obviously I have a long way to go before it´s finished. The grip, the pierced plates and making it all fit together.

The blade is one I got quite cheap, and I´m not sure it´s the right kind.
But there seems tho be a lot of variety in blade design for these hilts, so maybe I´m not that far of?

The blade on the original seems pretty hard to classify, maybe because it has been sharpened a lot?
Is it 4 or 6 faces, or just rounded? And what happened to the tip.

Does anyone know of a production sword which have an suitable (sharp) blade for this kind of hilt?

/Viktor

Stephen Wheatley · Posted: Thu 21 Mar, 2013 9:01 am Post subject: WALLOON BLADE

Nice work Viktor - I love the pierced plates on the Walloons and Swedish/Netherlands types from 'Sverige's Stormaktstid'. For a cheapish blede try the Hanwei sidesword (will need shortening as it has a ricasso) or better still their sharp mortuary sword blade. Failing that, billets of 5-6mm steel shouldn't be hard to come by in Sweden - I've made some nice swords from old farm circular saw blades - they're generally about 6mm thick and about four feet across. Timber yards and chain-saw repairs often have them lying about - my last one cost me £15 and was good for five or six swords. Good luck with the work and keep posting the pictures.

Roger Hooper · Posted: Thu 21 Mar, 2013 10:01 am Post subject:

That is very nice work. I like the subtle lobes on the side and knuckleguards. Sometimes on these swords they can swell up as big as abacus beads. Good luck with the pierced plates - that will be a difficult task.

For a blade how about the Hanwei/Tinker bastard sword with fuller. It will be fairly close to many Felddegen blades. You can buy just the blade Here at Kult of Athena for a good price.
You can get one without a fuller, but most of these swords do have a narrow fuller that goes about halfway down the blade.

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 12:46 am Post subject:

Thank you for your comments.

I have been looking for the sharp mortuary, but it´s not being made anymore and kind of hard to find.
It seems as if the Sidesword is discontinued as well?

The Tinker Bastard blade has never crossed my mind as suitable for these hilts. Have to find out more about it.

Yes the pierced plates is going to be challenging, and take a lot of patience.
Another concern is how to make the two end pieces on the wire bound grip. It seems to be two brass "cups" covering the ends of the grip. Not sure how to make them, but I will give it a try. If that failes maybe I could make two rings instead of cups. But then the problem is getting them to stay in place.

Stephen Wheatley · Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 1:57 am Post subject:

Brass plumbing fittings, provided they're old brass and not the new shiny type look great as hilt fittings - they come in 20 & 28mm widths. Failing that, there's a great tutorial on this site on Turk's Head knots; I've managed a few, they look great. How are you planning to attach the plates? Brazing and welding will be hard to clean up - brazing would be my option but I'd love to know how it was done in the past. Ihave used a sandwich of two thin guards rivetted to the plate which gives a neat join, obviously you can't do that as you've already made the hilt.

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 2:39 am Post subject:

I plan to braze the plates. I would guess that´s how they originaly did it.
I want the upper fitting to be oval. So maybe the plumbing supplies won't fit.
I think I can make them with some practice.

Radovan Geist · Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 3:41 am Post subject:

On one of my projects I´m trying to solve the same problem with attaching the guard-plate. Looking at original pieces (I can only recommend HH as a source: http://www.hermann-historica.de/gb/index_abgeschlossen_N.html), it seems that they´ve usually used a slit running along the side-loop, with the plate sandwiched in it.
Some examples (use the "magnifying glass" function):
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm63...at63_b.txt
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm64...t64_AW.txt
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm65...at65_a.txt
you can see it nicely also here, where the plate is missing:
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hhm65...at65_a.txt

it is difficult to say whether the joint was reinforced by brazing, but it´s possible.
For myself, I´m going to use this "slit" construction & tinning.

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 4:29 am Post subject:

Thank you both, I very much appreciate the advices.
I did prepare a sort of shelf for the plates to rest on. Preventing them from falling through if they receive a hit.

But it didn't line up as well as I would have wanted, when i assembled the hilt. But I will try and repair the damage done before fitting the plates.

Roger Hooper · Posted: Mon 25 Mar, 2013 6:52 am Post subject:

For dealing with the plates, you might want to contact Craig Johnson of Arms and Armor. They had to solve some of these problems when they made a Walloon for me.

Stephen Wheatley · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 4:48 am Post subject:

Hi Radovan, Viktor,

Hows it coming? I reckon the slit method would work well, they must have cut them before bending and welding the guards and then hammered in the plates to fit. A nightmare when you make the plates having to cut the shapes plus 3 - 4mm to allow for dishing. Good luck with them. Would love to see the photos.

Radovan Geist · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 6:26 am Post subject:

Well yes. I´m planning to try this method first on something smaller, with plate that is rather flat. Probably a parrying dagger, if I would find a relevant original piece as a model. I will post results, if there would be any Happy

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 12:10 pm Post subject:

I have not had time to do any more work on the hilt. But I will next week.
I ordered Hanwei/Tinkers bastard blades both with and without fuller. Could not decide wich one I preferred. Since the original I first got inspired of don't have a fuller. And I'm planning another similar project.
Thank you for pointing me in that direction Roger.

Roger Hooper · Posted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject:

For a clue on how to mount those plates, read what E. B. Erickson has to say on This Thread -- Peter Johnsson also puts forth some interesting information.

Stephen Wheatley · Posted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject:

That's a great link Roger - many thanks - I'd never have thought of hammering to expand the plates in! Great tip.

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Fri 07 Feb, 2014 7:23 am Post subject:

Well! Not much has happened on this project since last.
But I recently started looking in to it again. And I found this very nice norwegian museum page with a lot of swords tagged "schwedendegen".
Have a look at these: http://digitaltmuseum.no/search?query=schwedendegen&js=1'
Showing a lot of details, these for example. Showing two hilts missing one of the plates.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 07 Feb, 2014 10:18 am Post subject:

FWIW, I just got one of the H/T fullered bastard blades for a mid-16th c. field sword project, and I think it's a great way to go for some of these later hilts.

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Mon 10 Feb, 2014 12:51 am Post subject:

Yes I got one of those, but feel it's a bit wide at the base. Maybe I could narrow it down a bit.
I also got the Basket hilted backsword thinking about using that blade.
Looking att the hilt-type it seems to be used with every kind of blade of the time.

So now I can't decide.

Viktor Abrahamson · Posted: Mon 10 Feb, 2014 5:50 am Post subject:

Or maybe it's not to wide, this is the Hilt on the Tinker Bastard.

Sorry about the crappy picture.