The Albion Knecht Mark II -- myArmoury.com

Christopher B Lellis · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: The Albion Knecht Mark II

This sword or big knife as some people refer to it has caught my attention. Out of all of Albions line up, this sword seems the safest to handle due to it's single edge "less chance to cut yourself" and although it's an old design, it strikes me as the most contemporary type of sword as well. Does anyone own this or have experience handling it? What do you think?

R.M. Henson · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 2:43 am Post subject:

In my humble non-expert opinion and limited experience handling live swords I don't think that having one less live edge makes a sword inherently safer. It's all up to the person using it that determines it's safety.

In terms of it being more "contemporary" I suppose in comparison to the majority of Albion's Next Generation line up, historically it is technically newer in design. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Kriegsmessers didn't gain popularity until the 1500's.

Besides Cold Steel and Albion I don't think anyone else produces a Kriegsmesser, and Albion (from what I hear) produces the best ones available that aren't custom made. Definitely my favorite sword in their NG lineup.

Unfortunately there hasn't been a review of it on myArmoury, I'm hoping one day someone will give it a proper review.

Here's a short review from another site:
http://www.tritonworks.com/reviews?content=re...ion_knecht

and a short discussion on another forum:
http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.p...ion-knecht

Christian Henry Tobler · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 8:42 am Post subject:

Hello Christopher,

I wouldn't call the Knecht an inherently 'safer' sword either - in fact, I consider mine to the be perhaps the most powerful cutting weapon in my collection.

If you're 'in the market', you might want to see if you can acquire a second hand Mark I. These are, to my mind, a bit more 'representative of type' than the Mark II, which lacks the 'sandwiched scale' construction of the Mark I.

But in either case (I or II), you'll have an exquisite weapon in your collection - this is truly one of my favorites!

All the best,

Christian

Christopher B Lellis · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 10:28 am Post subject:

Seems like this sword is right up my alley. Oh the price! No worries, I'm gonna get it anyway.

Paul Watson · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 11:17 am Post subject:

Be aware this is definitely a 2 handed weapon, I have seen comments about single hand use but I cannot agree. This does not mean it is unwieldly or heavy, it is just clear it is meant for 2 hands. It is stunning and has a much more complex blade than the photos show. It is a tremendous cutter as noted and the point is reinforced enough and the spine is stiff enough for effective thrusting although the shape of the point would limit types of armour this would be effective against.

Don't ever call the Knecht safe, it is anything but for all the right reasons and the blade is scary to behold. The end portion has a very acute angle to the cutting plane as the spine is about 2mm or less and the plane of the blade is only formed in one direction due to it's single edge nature.

The handling feels very different to other Albions I have owned and I think much of this has to do with the fact ithas a small pommel cap instead of a typically larger pommel. It may feel very different but it is still quick.

Christopher B Lellis · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 1:11 pm Post subject:

Scott Hanson · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 9:14 pm Post subject:

Having a single edge also means you can't perform some of the techniques you can with a double edged sword.

I have a Mark I Knecht, and an Earl. Both are excellent swords, and I don't feel like I would injury myself more easily with the Earl than I would with the Knecht.

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Sun 23 Dec, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject:

Paul, thank you for your observations on the Knecht. Could you describe the reinforcement of the point, is it actually thickened or does it just have a steeper bevel near the tip? Also, in what way is the blade more complex than it appears in photos? I am gathering every data point I can on original and reproduction messers, so any bits you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Measurements maybe even?

Paul Watson · Posted: Mon 24 Dec, 2012 1:06 am Post subject:

Just briefly, the sword by feel appears to have a non linear distal taper. This is a unproven statement as I have only GUESSED this by running my forefinger and thumb together down the spine of the blade with my eyes closed and just got a feel of how the blade tapers. As it gets near the point the spine appears to measure with a tape 1/16 inch wide about 3 inches from the tip tapering minimally to just under 1/16 inch wide about 1/8 inch from the tip and then curving to a sharp point in that last 1/8 inch. In this last 1/8 inch it may also swell a little before terminating to a point. I cannot tell for sure, I do not have the best "eye" for this sort of thing and it may just be an illusion. This is just the spine of the point however, if you look down the point oriented from the cutting side, then it is clear that the body of the blade behind the cutting edge of the point swells out and at the point is thicker than the equivalent area immediately preceeding this. The real beauty of all of this is it all happens within small fractions of an inch. All this swelling and thickening is subtle but (mostly) evident, and every change merges to the nesxt seemlessly, a real testament to the research and workmanship involved in this blade. If anyone wonders why Albions cost what they do, they should just study and appreciate these aspects of the swords.

The spine is not quite 5/16 inch wide at the cross.

With regards to the blade complexity is is not simply a narrow triangular section going to an even narrower triangular section. I think again by feel, in the last part of the blade, excluding the last 3/4 or inch of point, the cross section may be as follows. It goes from the spine being the thickest part, narrowing gradually, then swelling again slightly in thickness before narrowing again and then having the final shape to form the cutting edge.

I may run over this with calipers during my holiday break if I get the time.

It is such a freakin awesome sword.

David Sutton · Posted: Mon 24 Dec, 2012 6:03 am Post subject:

Christopher B Lellis · Posted: Mon 24 Dec, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject:

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Mon 24 Dec, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject:

Just another little data point about self-injury with swords. I have spent a lot of the last 20 years with a sword in my hand, and have only cut myself while polishing or sharpening, never while cutting. I regularly rest the back edge of very sharp swords on my shoulder, do half-sword thrusting and mortschlag without gloves and have never cut myself. Those self injuries I am aware of mostly involve a cut to the outside of the left leg, due to either trying to power through a cut or failing to use correct footwork. I do not personally know of any injuries that resulted from a sword flying out of the hand or breaking and sending the blade flying, but I bet such a scenario would be the most dangerous. I wish you safe and fun cutting.

Thank you David and Paul, your observations are like gold to me. I really like the idea of reinforced points. My last Albion XVI bare blade had its point slightly reinforced by "twisting" the bevels so that they become steeper as they near the point, but the mid-line ridge did not thicken, though I tried to maintain as much thickness as possible as close to the point as I could. I am getting another soon, and would like to try doing more of a thickened point. I assume that the thickening is only about a mm, correct? By the way, I must say that the Albion bare blade was money really well spent. Grinding and finishing an Albion bare blade CNC blank really gives one an appreciation for the skill involved in turning the blank into a good sword. I think people who denigrate Albions as "machined' or just a "CNC blade" should try buying a bare blade blank and give hand-grinding it a try. I hope I did not stray to far off topic.