Early reference for buckler -- myArmoury.com

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: Early reference for buckler

Hello all,

I am looking for early references of bucklers.
Preferably before 1300, best before 1250.
Obviously I have quite a lot around 1300, it's the earlier stuff that is hard to find.

It doesn't matter wether it is textual, pictorial or factual - any proof of bucklers before 1300 / 1250 will do.

As to give a working definition: I define a buckler as a small shield of any shape (approx. diameter of 40cm or less) that is center gripped.

I would be really grateful for your input.

Thanks a lot!

Herbert

Mart Shearer · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2012 10:46 am Post subject:

There may be earlier examples which haven't been tagged.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?tags="buckler"

It's also harder to tell if an earlier example is a buckler or simply a round shield. Scale isn't always exact in miniatures.
Here's some possibilities:
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/book-of-hours-morgan-m739/5197/ from 1201-1219:

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/bible-moralis...2554/3844/ from 1225-1249:

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/the-rochester...xiii/1523/ from 1225-1250:

Mart Shearer · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2012 11:31 am Post subject:

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject:

Excellent! Absolutely brilliant - thank you very much!
This is really helpful. There are quite a few that I wasn't aware of before.

Again, thanks a lot!

Herbert

Mart Shearer · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject:

One issue is that sword & buckler is a system often used by lightly armored, or non-armored men, and manuscriptminiatures.com is dedicated to showing armor images. He has accepted non-armored sword and buckler miniatures since they are of interest to the community. I'll try to tag a few more pre-1300 images.

There are a number of hidden images in marginalia and bas-de-page figures, often grotesque hybrid zoomorphs, or incomplete figures. Here's a few examples from Yale's Beinecke MS.404 Rothschild Canticles from Flanders or the Rhineland, c. 1300.
http://brbl-archive.library.yale.edu/exhibiti...child.html
Unfortunately for your purposes, the style of decorating the borders of the text with these sorts of figures doesn't become popular until around 1280 or so.

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Tue 04 Dec, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject:

Mart,

I am aware of these border illustrations but they are notoriously hard to find because often they are not categorized in detail.

Thank you very much for your help - it is much appreciated!
If you happen to stumble upon anything else, I'd be grateful.

best wishes from snowy Austria!

Herbert

Dan Howard · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 2:07 am Post subject:

What exactly is the difference between a buckler and small round shield?

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 2:53 am Post subject:

There are some subtle differences but the main difference is that the buckler, whatever his shape is, is hold by a central grip in the middle of the shield. The round shield usually is held by means of straps and/or other handles etc.

The size and form alone is not enough to distinguish between the two. The scottish targe is the best example. The size of a (large) buckler it is held by straps on the forearm and therefore is a small round shield and no buckler.

That is at least in my opinion and to my knowledge.

Herbert

Jack Savante · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 3:09 am Post subject:

Romans used bucklers and they were most certainly centre gripped despite depictions to the contrary in Starz' Spartacus.

Byzantine Troops used them extensively, and they very closely reseambled the bucklers of the Middle Ages which you probably have in mind:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V3ssuRXhbw0/UAK_pmn...bzclim.jpg

How far do you want to go back?

Dan Howard · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 3:11 am Post subject:

Herodotus says that the Carians were the first people to add hand grips to their shields. The shields described in the Iliad are bucklers - centre-gripped rounds shields with a boss. I doubt that they ever went out of use from then onwards.

I think the targe has been misnamed. I'm pretty sure that Froissart says that a knight was carried off the field on a targe so that couldn't be a small shield. In addition the word "target" literally means "small targe" so a targe has to be larger than a target.

Sam Gordon Campbell · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 3:31 am Post subject:

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 3:52 am Post subject:

Dan Howard · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 4:45 am Post subject:

You can go back to the Bronze Age. You'll see continuous use of bucklers by someone from then right up till the modern period.

Craig Johnson · Industry Professional

Dan has hit it on the head, good ideas rarely go out of style. One element to all this is to remember that we are defining the buckler today. It was not called the same thing in many of the periods of its use as well as regional differences. So any time we start applying boundaries to what is or is not some object its good to remember that is for us not them.

Best
Craig

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 8:07 am Post subject:

Dan Howard · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject:

I don't really see the point. The project seems to involve:

1. Saying say that centre-gripped round shields have ben in use since the Bronze Age.
2. Creating a term ("buckler") to help modern classification
3. Arguing about how big this buckler can be and picking an arbitrary maximum size
4. Selecting some random examples from the last three thousand years

Herbert Schmidt · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject:

Jack Savante · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject:

I remember a primary source ( can't remember name sorry :S ) saying that the Romans were convinced to use their bucklers not their shields in to raid the Gothic Camp around the time of the battle of Adrianople (c.378). This likely would refer to something like the 'parma' that the Roman Standard bearers had long carried. So it was clearly considered to be of military importance to Romans.

The Byzantine usage of the buckler has an unbroken line with Roman usage, as the Byzantines were in all things the inheritors of Roman military tradition.

http://pneymatiko.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/ar...-defenses/

Byzantine ikons are generally depicted with this shield when depicted with any (though be mindful of post Byzantine ikons).

It appears from contemporary depictions that the buckler was reserved for special occasions (skirmishing) and for officers and troops for whom mobility was an issue.

http://www.orthodoxy-icons.com/uploads/posts/...rs-002.jpg

This site shows a byzantine skirmisher with a buckler:

http://www.levantia.com.au/

and is also an excellent resource for all things Byzantine.

Mart Shearer · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject:

The etymology seems to indicate a boss is required.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=buckle

Gregory J. Liebau · Posted: Wed 05 Dec, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject:

I'd reckon between the etymology Mart just mentioned and the historical lineage of "small, center-gripped, bossed shields" you're going to have a lot to cover if you want to trace the history of the buckler. As stated, such shields have a been used in many places over a long period, and buckler is just a European term to describe them.

If you focus on Medieval bucklers, here are some of the earliest real examples you can sift through... Be sure to look at all the pages of the search, as they appear randomly throughout the 164 images. If you lose the search, just type in "skjold" up top and start anew.

http://www.unimus.no/foto/#/P=search/S=skjold

-Gregory