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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2004 3:08 pm    Post subject: Was every old baskethilt at Culloden ?         Reply with quote

Sure seems like it ;-) Mac

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,scottish-bas...98369.html



http://www.goantiques.com/detail,culloden-per...61820.html



http://www.goantiques.com/detail,scottish-bar-basket,683493.html


'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
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Gordon Frye




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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2004 5:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seems like it... just like all rifle-muskets were at Gettysburg, and all Single Action Colt's and Springfield Trapdoor Carbines were at the Little Bighorn. Great stuff for people who do all of their research in sales pamphlets!

;o)

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
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http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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E.B. Erickson
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2004 1:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well of course they were! Don't you doubting Thomases (pun intended) know that every surviving trooper and officer in the English army returned from the battle with an armload of Jacobite baskethilts as souveniers? And that this fact accounts for the great preponderance of Scottish baskets being described as being from Culloden? What?!? You didn't know that? Just ask anyone who describes arms and armor for dealers catalogs; they'll tell you it's so!

--ElJay
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You guys are so wrong not every baskethilt was at Culloden, only the ones that were made by Andrea Ferrara...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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E.B. Erickson
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The sword shown by Thomas at the top of the page has just shown up on eBay; lot #2286369878. The dealer has pointed out that the grip is modern. I actually like this sword, in spite of it's condition, as it's a good example of one of the English cav basket types.

--ElJay
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov, 2004 6:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

E.B. Erickson wrote:
The sword shown by Thomas at the top of the page has just shown up on eBay; lot #2286369878. The dealer has pointed out that the grip is modern. I actually like this sword, in spite of it's condition, as it's a good example of one of the English cav basket types. --ElJay


Hi Eljay

Yeah, I noticed that it showed up ..... it is a nice piece !
What do you feel is a fair price to pay for one in this condition ?

Also .... I'd like your opinion on this one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...:X:ON:US:2
I'm tempted to raise my bid, near auctions close, but I just don't know too much about these types ?

Any thoughts ? Mac

*Edit .... Well, I almost won ..... just ran out of time when I rebid at $800.00 ;-(

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Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Wed 17 Nov, 2004 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




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PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov, 2004 7:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mac,
On this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2286369878
the seller states that the sword is of the same type used by the 12th Dragoons and the Royal Horse Guards. Well... Is it????

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Nov, 2004 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
Hi Mac,
On this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2286369878
the seller states that the sword is of the same type used by the 12th Dragoons and the Royal Horse Guards. Well... Is it???? Cheers, Henrik


Hi Henrik

As far as I remember the 12th was not at Culloden ?
I am not positive about this model sword, being carried there .... but I don't recall it as being an "issued" one !

Mac

British Regiments: Culloden is not a battle honour for British regiments in spite of being a victory.
The regiments present at the battle were: Cobham’s (10th) and Kerr’s (11th) dragoons, Kingston’s Light Dragoons, the Royals (1st), Howard’s Old Buffs (3rd), Barrel’s King’s Own (4th) Wolfe’s (8th), Pulteney’s (13th), Price’s (14th), Bligh’s (20th), Campbell’s Royal Scots Fusiliers (21st), Sempill’s (25th), Blakeney’s (27th), Cholmondeley’s (34th), Fleming’s (36th), Munro’s (37th), Ligonier’s (48th) and Battereau’s (62nd) Foot.



http://www.britishbattles.com/battle_of_culloden.htm

The first line consisted of six regiments, viz. the Royals, (the 1st,) Cholmondeley's, (the 34th,) Price's, (the 14th,) the Scots Fusileers, (the 21st,) Monro's (the 37th,) and Barrels's, (4th). The Earl of Albemarle had the command of this line. In the intermediate spaces between each of these regiments were placed two pieces of cannon, making ten in all. The second line consisted of five regiments, viz. those of Pulteney, (the 13th,) Bligh, (the 20th,) Sempil, (the 25th,) Ligonier, (the 48th,) and Wolfe's, (the 8th,) and was under the command of General Huske. Three pieces of cannon were placed between the exterior regiments of this line and those next them. The third line or corps de reserve , under Brigadier Mordaunt, consisted of four regiments, viz. Battereau's (the 62d,) Howard's, (the 3d,) Fleming's, (the 36th,) and Blakeney's, (the 27th,) flanked by Kingston's dragoons, (the 3d). The order in which the regiments of the different lines are enumerated, is that in which they stood from right to left. The flanks of the front line were protected on the left by Kerr's dragoons, (the 11th,) consisting of three squadrons, commanded by Lord Ancrum, and on the right by Cobham's dragoons, (the 10th,) consisting also of three squadrons, under General Bland, with the additional security of a morass, extending towards the sea; but thinking himself quite safe on the right, the duke afterwards ordered these last to the left, to aid in the intended attack upon the right flank of the Highlanders. The Argyle men, with the exception of 140, who were upon the left of the reserve, were left in charge of the baggage.
* http://www.electricscotland.com/history/culloden/c14.html

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E.B. Erickson
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 5:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Howdy Thomas,
I think it's just as well that you missed the "Bilbo", as I'm pretty sure that the grip and pommel are replacements. Also, the guard had been broken up near the pommel, and someone just filed some lines on the broken ends to give them a sort-of-finished appearance instead of doing a proper repair.

On the basket, because of the condition, I would bid less than $1000. However, I think that it'll go for more than that. The S-hilt above was in pretty poor shape as well, and it went for $1800 (But then, it was Scottish. English baskets tends to go for less).

Next week I'm back to working on your hilt: the humidity here has finally eased off!

--ElJay
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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




Location: Aust Agder, Norway
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 10:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

He he... Obviously not... He he... Thanks, Mac!
Are you, by the way, bidding for it???

Cheers,
Henrik

Constant and true.
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Thomas McDonald
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 11:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote:
He he... Obviously not... He he... Thanks, Mac!
Are you, by the way, bidding for it??? Cheers, Henrik


Yeah, 'ol Claidheamhmac threw in a low bid .... (which Eljay's comments confirmed as being a fair one) !
The reserve is probably up towards 3 grand, which I will never get near, so I don't have much hope of it joining Baron Mac's estate, here in Townsend !

Kinda fun bidding, though, when you know you wont be obligated to buy ;-) Mac

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Henrik Bjoern Boegh




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PostPosted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 10:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

He he... Bet it is!
Good luck!
Hey, you should take a new groupphoto of all your basket-hilts, "olde" and new.

Cheers, Henrik

Constant and true.
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