[Dylan Hopper]

Hello, everyone. This is my first post so please excuse me if I am posting in the wrong forum.

From what I've read on your forums and other forums, this Angel Sword company seems to be loathed or loved by all. So, I would please ask that we refrain from starting a debate about their products. Thank you. I should also mention that I know nothing about weapons, melee-active history, or steel. I apologize if I seem too newbish.

Any way, I have been looking at this weapon from their website and it seems to be the one that I've always been searching for. It's not really a historical weapon at all but it is the ideal design that I've always wanted. The problem is... it's $1,000 USD. I can't really fathom how a piece of 1.25' steel with 3/16" thickness and a wrapped handle would run that much but I assume it has to do something with this patented "Advanced-Thermal processing" and S7 Shock Resistant steel.

So, my question to you all is (and this may be a shot in the dark): have any of you ever seen a similar design to this weapon? I do like the wrapped handle but mainly it is just the shape of the blade. Nice and straight with a rounded edge and then the handle is dripped down.

I'm aware that is a pretty vague specification but if anyone knows where I could get a weapon like that for a price that wouldn't put me out on the street, I would be much obliged. I'll attach the image of the weapon in question, as well.

Thank you all again so much.

ETA: The link to the weapon: http://www.angelswordstore.com/index.php?page...;Itemid=92

[Jean Thibodeau]

Take your time before deciding on what to buy and be skeptical about advertising buzz words like " battle ready " for example that is almost meaningless for example except that it " might " differentiate from a wall hanger with a fragile handle assembly ( Rat tail tang ) that might break at the guard if one waves the sword in the air a little too fast.

Same thing about secret patented magic steel and secret heat treat processes. ( Buyer beware. )

If you are buying an Albion sword or A&A sword or any other high end production sword you should expect to pay at least in the $800 to $2000 range in price depending on the model of sword.


There are also much less expensive swords make of quality materials and good design, for some of their swords offerings, by other companies that can range from $300 to $600 more or less. ( Hanwey or Windlass for example ).

There are also, way over priced swords and designs not any better than a $300 sword but priced like a high end product.

If it looks like a sharpened crowbar, has no subtleties of profile or distal taper and handles like a sharpened crowbar it might not justify a premium price.

So spend a little time here looking at reviews, check out the different production makers and custom makers to see what the quality stuff looks like and at what prices and then decide if a specific sword seems to meet the same quality/price criteria.

Reading a bit about steels and heat treats ( Feature articles here on " myArmoury " or google it ) should help in being able to tell the difference between accurate specifications versus advertising hype.

Well, to answer your specific question about " where " to find you could search on this site that has just about everything from low end to high end swords and is a very good and reliable vendor who has a great reputation for great customer service: http://www.kultofathena.com/

You can even e-mail Ryan Whittlinger, the owner, if you need honest advice about what product at what price range you are looking for.

This one at half the price: http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...al+Yatagan

Or look at this, scroll down to middle and there is something similar to what you want:
http://imakeswords.com/tactical.htm

Home page of above: http://imakeswords.com/products.htm

Good quality steel and heat treat by the way.

[Dylan Hopper]

Thank you very much, Jean, for your reply.

Actually, the main reason I was interested in the blade is because the claim of "500% more durability" enticed me. I'm very interested in find a blade that is actually "battle ready" as you put. Of course, the weapon I am looking at isn't a sword at all so I'd be less worried about it breaking. I have bought cheap blades in the past (swords included) that always broke over something silly.

I'm sure this is a daft question but.. do manufactures even produce swords with "battle" in mind any more? It seems to be more-or-less about showcasing but I'm actually looking for a weapon that can take and deal abuse.

Those links look great and I'll be reading further into them after this post. Also, I will make sure to thoroughly scan the forums here.

Thank you once again for the reply, it means a lot to me.

[Robin Smith]

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Timo Nieminen]

[David Lewis Smith]

You know, I carried a Cold Steal Carbon V Recon Tanto for over 24 years of military service. I abused that knife, once I put it on a 1/4 mild steel wire hit it on the ridge with a 3LBS Ball Peen hammer and cut the wire (dont ask, it was in Afghanistan, enough said on why) No reall damage to the edge. I finaly bought a new one about a year ago just because I wanted one, not needed to replace Old Faithful. Total cost for both knives? Less than 140 bucks, you can still find them for under 70, new in box.

Dave
who goes to bad places in the world

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Sean Flynt]

What's your application for this weapon, Dylan? That's the essential piece of information. Really, not much else matters. If your life is on the line, price should be no obstacle. HOWEVER, those whose lives are truly in danger probably aren't worried about what knife they're carrying, much less paying $1000 for it. They're too busy tending their government-issued SCAR, M4, HK, etc. In fact, somewhere in these fora is an (apparently) informed observation that some SF guys really do get good kitchen knives and duct-tape the grips.

FWIW, when I wanted a new general-purpose sheath knife I got one of these to modify by shortening the blade from the tang end:

http://www.amazon.com/Old-Hickory-10-Butcher-Knife/dp/B000KKIT8U

[Matthew P. Adams]

"I can't really fathom how a piece of 1.25' steel with 3/16" thickness and a wrapped handle would run that much..."

Pretty much said it right there.

[Tim Lison]

Dylan-

I noticed that the overall length of the S7 is actually 17 inches which would qualify it as a dagger. There are many custom makers who could make something of that size with similar characteristics for much less money. I might look into OlliN. They are quite good and have made similar looking weapons in the past. In fact, they have a weapon with a similar blade but different grip for sale right now for less than half of what the S7 costs.There is a link to OlliN on the links page of this site.

[Lee O'Hagan]

Lee Reeves posted a Q on this site elsewhere,
http://zombietools.net/tools/
there along the lines of what your looking at within a sensible budget,ignoring the title or sales pitch,the pieces shown look good value for money,the numbers and weights dont look bad,
the pieces arent to everyones tastes,but theres a few i'd happily buy if they were over here,
decent steel mentioned,5160,videos of use, havent watched them though,
but overall they look pretty good,
the gus Trim tactical line you might find second hand on asking,pretty good reviews,again 5160 from memory,
Tinker had some decent tactical stuff on his available page at last look,
some very good makers already mentioned, the BKS stuff looks cool,
as for the original mentioned,
it looks expensive for what it is,and i very much doubt the average human could push any of the mentioned blades far enough to prove any different,
for a $1000 personally AS wouldnt even be on my shortlist,
there are so many talented guys around at the moment,it's more a personnal thing where you end up buying,
take a look through the excellent makers list on this site,
but overall,be safe,

[JE Sarge]

I really like the Zombie Tools stuff for tactical applications. I don't care for the funky post-apocalyptic paint jobs, but the blades themselves are pretty damn nice. They have good balance, durability, and excellent cutting/thrusting properties. Their price will not break the bank, and for the price, you could have a 2-3 of the same model - which is the letter of the rules of redundancy in bad situations: having 1 = none, having 2 = 1.

As for Angel Sword, I have held many of their swords over the years, but none of them have really impressed me with their balance, handling, or aesthetics. Sure, they might be made out of some type of secret super alloy, but as for me, I don't like their designs enough to invest in one. They just don't feel right in the hand.

[Dylan Hopper]

Wow, thanks guys. I am impressed by the amount of replies I have gotten in such short amount of time.

As for my intentions, I plan on using this knife for all-purpose survival reasons and most possibly self-defense. I won't be in American country (where I am now) and most likely in jungle terrain. Any ways, the reason the style of blade stood out to me was because 1) I can see that the blade goes all the way through the handle (and, in fact, is the handle) so I do not have to worry about it not being a full tang and possibly breaking at the handle due to cheap construction, which I have had happen so many times before, and 2) because the flat style blade would be, in my eyes, more useful in reliant situations.

So, yes I am looking for a durable blade and I am sure this one would be durable. However, breaking is not too big of an issue with me. It's more about losing it. If I were to lose a $1,000 blade, I'd never forgive myself.

Timo: Thank you for the mention off the steel's specifications. I've seen numbers thrown around like that 9260, 5160, and more commonly I see something like 1040. I assume the higher number signifies more hardness?


David Lewis: Cold Steel has been on my mind for awhile, but sometimes I am thrown off by more commercial products. Regardless, the Cold Steel OSS & OSI: San Mai III have always been on my list.


Jean: I can't imagine ever having to use a steel weapon to defend myself against another steel weapon. At dagger and knife length, I wouldn't try to catch one any way. Still, I may be using it against harder surfaces, but I doubt much steel.


Sean: Yes, the knife is a serious matter but not that serious. I would hope I'd never have to use it against another man. Again, I don't think any knife (unless for show reasons) would be worth $1,000 USD to me, but I'm not about showcasing any way.


Matthew: As I assumed.


Tim: Thank you. I am excited to check these guys out. I always like looking at private manufactures' collections. Getting a knife custom made would be even more appealing to me.


Lee: I checked that Zombie website out, and I must say: I am actually quite interested. I normally don't go for fantasy style weapons but these actually have blade styles and even handle styles that I personally prefer. I'm not sure what the 5160 steel is exactly but sounds better than the 1040 I am used to.


Thanks again to everyone who replied. I have a lot of considerations now and couldn't be happier.

[Robin Smith]

[Timo Nieminen]

As above, 10xx, 51xx, 92xx are various grades of steel. That is, different steel alloys.

The most common grades in use when talking about sword steels appear to be the SAE grades. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades for more.

There are other systems, too. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel_grades for an introduction.

For a non-technical summary of steels of most interest for swords and knives, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_blade_materials and follow the links therein further if you want more.

For a more detailed and technical look at steels and their properties, remaining more accessible than the really specialised books, Verhoeven's Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist is pretty good. Part of the book can be seen in the google books preview: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=brpx-LtdCLYC . It's might be more than you're after, but does clearly talk about hardness and toughness and how they're measured.

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

I would look at this from a budget standpoint. If your going jungle, the worst threats are from disease and unclean water supplies, so I would allocate most of my ressources making sure I had all my shots and the best water purification mobile systems money can buy, Then, after that was done, I would follow Mr. Smith's advice and get me a good 70 to 150 dollar metal tool which has proven itself in rough conditions and is versatile enough to chop branches and neutralise soft targets, if need be. The latter situation is fairly rare.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Jungle blade kit would consist for me of a multi-tool knife. a stout quality lock-back folder with a 4" to 6" blade and a machete, tactical tomahawk or a Kukri.

[Dylan Hopper]

Thanks for the responses. The metal coding makes sense now. As for equipment, I'm well prepared and have done this before. Just need a good knife is all.

I'm still scouring through all the links I have been given so I'll update with my decision hopefully soon.

Thanks!

[Dylan Hopper]