[Dave Stephan]

Hello again my friends.

I thought of something and now I'm curious to satisfy it. Were sleeves short or long? It seems like a lot of you guys wear maille with short sleeves, but in the Middle Ages I would think that'd be a horribly exposed area (especially in the age before plate).

I mean surely they wore long sleeved maille, or am I missing something? Are the short sleeves a modern reenactor thing? Another thing, when I see long sleeves they're sometimes baggy at the ends, far too big, is this true or another reenactment thing?

Thanks.

EDIT: I just thought of bracers, that'd solve the problem I suppose. But it still makes more sense to me for the sleeves to be long.

[Ian S LaSpina]

As time progressed, maille shirts tended to get smaller. In the 14th century you see the progression of a full sized maille hauberk (down to the knees, long sleeves), to a haubergeon (or little hauberk), which went to about mid-thigh and had half to three-quarter sleeves.

The maille shirts got smaller because things were starting to be covered with plate instead of just maille and padding as the only defense like it was prior to this time period. By the 15th century, maille shirts are starting to disappear, and instead being replaced by maille faulds (just a skirt of maille secured at the waist), and voiders (bits of maille sewn in to the armpit area that protected the areas of the body not covered by the almost complete plate harness being worn by this time).

The big hanging sleeves are more of a modern manufacturing thing. Tailoring maille is difficult and labor intensive. Most people who buy modern reproductions don't bother to tailor their sleeves. In medieval times, a hauberk or haubergeon would have been tightly tailored to its owner, both for weight savings, and dramatically increased performance.

An exception to this would be 14th century Italian style arm harnesses where the man-at-arms or knight would forego plate shoulder defenses and just use maille on the shoulders from their haubergeon. They would sometimes keep the sleeves wider, so they would drape over the rerebrace or upper-cannon of their plate arm defenses. When you see maille 'bingo wings' in modern reenactment, that's mostly just poorly tailored maille.

[Luka Borscak]

Dave, you probably think of migration era and viking reenactment. And yes, for that era, short sleeves are historically accurate. And for the style of fighting, shieldwalls from which you strike with fast strikes and you don't "fence" with your hand exposed, short sleeves are good enough.

[JE Sarge]

[Elling Polden]

Dave:
As you point out, it seems extremely intuitive to us that arm protection should be a priority. However, as it turns out, it was not.
This appears odd, as the arms would be exposed to sword blows.
Because we automaticaly asume that people are fighting with swords.
But looking at history, wars where not fought primarily with swords. They where fought with spears.
Spears are less likely to hit the arms (as people are aiming for eachothers heads), and a spear thrust to the arm is unlikely to leathal. They will however pierce the torso like butter, promting torso armour to be the top priority after the helmet.

Bracers, as we would asume to be used, is generally not seen in western europe except as part of a full armor, often in addition to mail.

[Benjamin H. Abbott]

As JE Sarge notes, it depends. Certainly some suits of mail covered the body from head to toe, as depicted in texts such as the Maciejowski Bible.

[Dave Stephan]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, this has been a lot of help. I'm happy I asked the question because I would have forgotten and never known why maille sleeves could be so customizable.

But I have another maille question now. Several, even. I've tried to research it but the sources I find are either very shaky or so detailed I can't find what I'm looking for.

Just down to the very point, were maille rings generally flat or round? i've noticed with a lot of reproduction maille the rings will be rounded, but the more expensive ones are flat. What's the difference physically and historically?

Also, how does the size of the hole come into play? I see various sizes of reproduction armour like 8mm or 10mm, often the gaps between each link seems very large. Is this an accurate portrayal or does it save on labour and cost to leave it untightly knitted?

Lastly what is all this blackening I hear about? Some oxidization process in order to prevent steel and iron from corroding/rusting I assume, but I see aluminum blackened too and I thought it not to rust. What exactly are the benefits and downfalls to buying blackened maille? I've heard many horror stories where the 'blackening' would come off on everything.

I'm trying to make an informed purchase, that's where you guys come in! Obviously my price keeps me at LARP level aluminium, but I can still pick out the best among them I suppose.

[Aleksei Sosnovski]

[Robin Smith]

Sleeve Length, as well as hem length is basically a function of period. In my favorite period, short sleeves are authentic as is a hem length of around knee length.

[William P]

a quick guide to the roundness/ flatness of maile links over time.
vikings/ saxons in viking age, mostly round links either all rivited, or rivet links and solid links, (i.e gjermundbu was round links)
in the eastern steppes around the same time flat ring maile existed

later on flat ring maile became more common in the rest of europe.

[Sam Blincoe]

Could anyone give me advice or point me in the direction of guide on how to tailor the sleeves on a maille shirt.

Thanks

Sam

[T. Kew]

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB3/viewto...p;t=157253 is a good thread on the Armour Archive about reconstructing a tailored sleeve, which might be a decent place to start.

[Len Parker]

Aleksei, I'm very curious about the 12mm ID maille you mentioned. Do you have any pictures, or know of any links to this shirt, or the name of this museum?