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Jonathan Hopkins
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Posted: Wed 28 Sep, 2011 8:22 am Post subject: |
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I was recently given a Pattern 1821 light cavalry style sword. The sword has been buffed quite severely. I assume that the scabbard and hilt had taken the common brownish grey color so often encountered, and the previous owner or dealer decided it would be better if it was shiny. If the blade was ever etched, all traces are gone. So in most respects it is a very plain sword with nothing to set it apart. However one interesting feature is actually its lack of a feature. It does not have, nor has it ever had, a proof disc. As can be seen in the photos, the ricasso has no recess for a disc, nor are there any traces of government or unit stamps (in case one might wonder if it was an NCO's sword).
I have not measured the blade, but it is the same length as the blade on my other P1821 LC officer's sword, so about 34.5" The pommel is stepped like many Royal Artillery officers' swords, but I know that there are many exceptions and that cavalry swords are found with stepped pommels and RA swords with chequered and domed pommels.
Based on the grip shape and length, my guess is that it dates to the 1870s-80s.
In the end, it is a plain P1821 style sword with little to nothing to indicate its origins. It is a good example of the damage caused by over cleaning/uninformed restoration.
Still, it is a great gift!
Last edited by Jonathan Hopkins on Wed 28 Sep, 2011 8:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Sean Flynt
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Eric G.
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Posted: Sat 01 Oct, 2011 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Sean Flynt wrote: | Just finished this one: |
I remember seeing the image of Talhoffer that inspired this one for you. You did a great job at staying true to that sword. The pommel is especially unique. Great job.
Eric Gregersen
www.EricGregersen.com
Knowledge applied is power.
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Mirek Macek
Location: Czech republic Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 16
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Posted: Sat 15 Oct, 2011 2:21 am Post subject: Lutel-Handicraft 12013 |
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I picked my new 12013 sword from Lutel-Handicraft this Wednesday and I’m so impressed by this sword that I really have to share my newest toy with you. My choice of this particular sword maker was based on favourable reviews published on myArmoury and other internationals forums. It’s really interesting that Lutel’s swords are not very popular on forums based here in the Czech Republic as they are considered to be heavy a and not really historically accurate. To be honest I had a lot of doubts after reading some of the Czech reviews, but back to my sword.
I ordered it sharp and it’s really sharp, without any secondary edges. The sword and the belt were also slightly customised - no false riccaso, different cross-guard, new buckle ad no rivets on belt. The weight of my sword is only 1,29 kg (2,84 pounds), catalogue weight is 1,45kg so sword is lighter than it supposed to be, what a nice surprise. I know that there are some aspect which people from Living history wouldn’t agree (fuller is grinded, pommel is screwed and scabbard hasn’t got a wooden core), but I do think that it looks like “real” medieval sword. At the end I would like to admit that I not an experienced collector as I this is my second sword so I could be wrong about my sword. No more words let the pictures speak for themselves.
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J.D. Crawford
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Posted: Sun 16 Oct, 2011 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Lutel-Handicraft 12013 |
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Mirek Macek wrote: | I know that there are some aspect which people from Living history wouldn’t agree (fuller is grinded, pommel is screwed and scabbard hasn’t got a wooden core), but I do think that it looks like “real” medieval sword. At the end I would like to admit that I not an experienced collector as I this is my second sword so I could be wrong about my sword. |
You have every right to be proud - its an attractive sword with a classic early medieval look (somewhat like the Sword of St. Maurice Turin, for example). Maybe a few things are not quite right - the screw on pommel, the angles at the bottom of pommel, but the overall look is good. The weight seems fine. What is the CoG? How is the mass distribution - does it maintain a uniform thickness along most of the blade, or does it become more thin toward the tip (distal taper)?
Why don't you post a photo on the 'Brazil Nut' thread as well?
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William Swiger
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Posted: Sun 16 Oct, 2011 9:18 am Post subject: |
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John Lundemo (Odin) Longsword:
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Mirek Macek
Location: Czech republic Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 16
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Posted: Sun 16 Oct, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Lutel-Handicraft 12013 |
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J.D. Crawford wrote: |
What is the CoG? How is the mass distribution - does it maintain a uniform thickness along most of the blade, or does it become more thin toward the tip (distal taper)?
Why don't you post a photo on the 'Brazil Nut' thread as well? |
The PoB is about 14,1cm from of the guard. What about distal taper, well I think that thickness of the blade lessens only slightly to the end of fuller, but from this points it is definitely more gradual.
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William Carew
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Posted: Tue 08 Nov, 2011 2:39 am Post subject: |
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My latest is a blunt Lutel-handicrafts 15008 hand-and-a-half (longsword). I went with a black grip and scabbard combined with blackened hilt fittings (a little extra, but worth it IMHO).
I'm very pleased and impressed with the sword - handsome, solid and handles nicely.
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Bill Carew
Jogo do Pau Brisbane
COLLEGIUM IN ARMIS
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Eric G.
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Posted: Sun 13 Nov, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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The Count by Albion
I'm absolutely thrilled by this sword. Despite it's nearly parallel edges it is very light in the hand. Even surprisingly so. I love to compare the XIIIa to my Crecy XVIa and see how different they are.
Eric Gregersen
www.EricGregersen.com
Knowledge applied is power.
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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Sun 13 Nov, 2011 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Congratulations Eric!
I like it! Please talk about your impressions of the handling between these two swords. I haven't handled either but would be curious how you would describe the difference.
I have always really liked the looks of the Count. Great choice!
And I know that bronze is going to look great with a bit of time, that is unless you prefer a bright finish, which also has it's charm. I love the look of a slightly patinated bronze.
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D. S. Smith
Location: Central CA Joined: 02 Oct 2011
Posts: 236
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Posted: Sun 13 Nov, 2011 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy V. Krause wrote: | Congratulations Eric!
I like it! Please talk about your impressions of the handling between these two swords. I haven't handled either but would be curious how you would describe the difference.
I have always really liked the looks of the Count. Great choice!
And I know that bronze is going to look great with a bit of time, that is unless you prefer a bright finish, which also has it's charm. I love the look of a slightly patinated bronze. |
Agreed! Congrats again Eric. That is a fine looking sword and you took great photos of it. I'm also curious as to your observations about how it compares to the Crecy. My first sword (on order as we speak) is a Crecy and I'd like to hear what you think of it's handling.
As a side note, I don't suppose you'd like to take some excellent photos of your Crecy . I can always use more nice shots of them, especially as I wait for mine.
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Eric G.
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Posted: Sun 13 Nov, 2011 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you both.
Now before I answer your questions I want to preface so you will weigh what I am about to say against my level of expertise. I have only been a serious part of this community for a year, and still feel like i have a lot to learn. I started studying the italian longsword and rapier a few months ago and have a lot of room to grow in that respect too.
My observations between the two of them can be summarized by saying that the count is definitely a cut oriented sword, while the Crecy leans much more towards thrusting. Don't get me wrong, both can cut just fine, but I was surprised at how much better the count does on the cut after have handled my Crecy for a few months.
However, if you've paid any attention to the Oakeshott articles on this site you will already know what i have told you. I knew it when I ordered the swords, but there is a difference in 'knowing' something from reading about it and understanding it conceptually, and really knowing something after having experienced it.
I also find both of these swords very handsome pieces in different ways. The Crecy has what I consider to be one of the most perfect looking blade profiles ever. I don't know what it is, but I just love the taper on that sword, and I especially love how the cross section transitions from a hexagonal to a flattened diamond cross section. Whenever I show someone that sword for the first time I always point out that little detail to them.
However, the Count (and all the type XIII's) has really grown on me. I have begun to really love seeing a sword with nearly parallel edges, regardless of it's length. I suppose that there is a different feel for a sense of the time and place these two weapons came from when I consider their different characteristics and that it what I really enjoy. I suppose that the more my collection grows the more I will learn about swords in this regard. I am excited for the learning experience.
One more thing. The handling. The Crecy is noticeably heavier than the Count. Since the Count tapers so much less I would have expected it to be the other way around, but it's not. Don't get me wrong, the Crecy is not really a blade heavy sword, Albion has done an excellent job and I would buy it again if I had the chance, but the Count really feels much swifter in the hand.
If you would like to see pictures of my Crecy you can go a few pages back, it's the one with the blue grip on this same thread. You can also see it on this link for the SBG where I intend to post all of my collection in one single place. http://forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic...759#p95759
Finally, the photos were taken by my very talented and lovely wife. Thank you for your kind words, I will pass them on to her.
Eric Gregersen
www.EricGregersen.com
Knowledge applied is power.
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Eric G.
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Posted: Sun 13 Nov, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy V. Krause wrote: |
And I know that bronze is going to look great with a bit of time, that is unless you prefer a bright finish, which also has it's charm. I love the look of a slightly patinated bronze. |
I really like the bonze on a sword. It is no secret that I have some serious coveting issues when it comes to Chad's Sovereign with all bronze fittings. drool.
I am going to let the patina happen. If I don't like it (but I think I will) I can always just polish it off again.
Eric Gregersen
www.EricGregersen.com
Knowledge applied is power.
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William M
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Posted: Sun 04 Dec, 2011 3:55 am Post subject: |
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I picked this up at a recent Arms fair. I have always wanted a decent sword cane and being in the UK, law dictates that I must have an antique as modern examples are illegal. This is fine for me as I mostly collect modern arms anyways.
The cane has been well used by evidence of the worn silver band and sheep horn grip. I can tell that the owner was right handed due to the slight bend in the shaft due to leaning on the right.
The blade is unsigned and is triangular for the first 3/4 then quickly transitions into a square blade. I would had thought that a fully triangular hollow-ground blade would have given superior stiffness.
The sword handles wonderfully as with the horn handle acting similarly to a piston grip that you find on modern fencing swords.
The silver band is engraved but has been worn down. It has a 4 proofing marks, which I have not yet identified. As far as I can tell the inscription is as follows. "PRESENTED TO WILLIAM MSSOH BY THE MEMBERS OF THE **LSILL POLICE FIRE BRIGADE ON THE RETIREMENT 1897"
Blade sheathed.
In the hand.
Silver band with engraving.
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Tibor Szebenyi
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Posted: Wed 07 Dec, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Here is my Turkish/Mamluk sabre from István Sepsik:
Sorry, the inscriptions cannot be seen because of the light.
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William Swiger
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Posted: Wed 07 Dec, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: |
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John T Miller
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Morgan Butler
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Posted: Wed 07 Dec, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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I just acquired an impressive British Infantry Officer sword that is a nice variation of the 86-88 pattern and may predate it. It has a 31 inch double edged blade that has a surprisingly nice balance and heft. It is one and a quarter inches wide at the forte.The pommel is larger than my other 1788 spadroon and has a thicker knuckle guard, as well as a shagreen grip. It is very iconic to hold. It makes me want to yell "Rule Britannia!" when I grasp it. The brass seems to be of a yellower content when cleaned up than my other hilts of this type. The blade really reminds me of some larger french cavalry swords of the first half of the 18th cen. that I have seen. It's possible this is a french blade.
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inkothemgard!
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Austin D.G. Hill
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Posted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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mine would be my Masai short sword.it is light, fast, and has a vicious cut. it was not a fake made by a tourism company but a real one hand made by a Masai and was carried by a real Masai warrior from the bush who had gotten a job as a guard at a building. not a common sword for collecting, but i love it
AUSTIN DANIEL GLENN HILL
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Matt Corbin
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Posted: Thu 08 Dec, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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John,
You have every right to love it, that's an amazing sword. Christian has really come a long way in the last few years. His stuff has always been good, but now it's bordering on spectacular. He should be finishing my sword within the next few months and I can't wait
“This was the age of heroes, some legendary, some historical . . . the misty borderland of history where fact and legend mingle.”
- R. Ewart Oakeshott
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