[Robert Rootslane]

Hi everyone.

So my reenactment group has finally decided to start using wooden shields instead of the cheap plywood ones.

i have given it a little bit of thinking and research but i have been unable to find some things, so i hope someone here knows the answers or can direct me to good sources.

As soon as i have enough information wel start making the shields, and i think il post the pictures about the progress here.

*Firstly the kite shields in 12th century were made of wooden boards/planks not some medieval plywood, right?

*I have read that the round shields from Gogstad were made of pine, but what wood would be used for kite shields.

*In case of any archaeological finds, how wide would the planks have been? The boards in those times were not made by sawing them but by "ripping" them apart from the trunk. I have done some of those boards for skis and in a viking age house reconstruction experiment. However i have no idea how wide would the ones for a shield have to be, if theares any certain with at all...

*The kite shield were curved. It is easy to make a curved shield from plywood, but one from planks seems to be a bit more complicated. I think they should be treated with steam and than set under a press or something like that.

* The book from Theophilus rights that shields were glued together, but im not certain that only glue would hold it together. I think that some horisontal boards should be added to reinforce the shield... Any bright ideas?

*the grip. In bayeux tapestry they seem to hold shields in a manner that would suggest a 45 degree or a horisontal positions of handgrips. That also seems the most comfordable way for me.

* The cover. On bayeux tapestry and some illustrations, i can see no boards. That should either mean that the shields were covered with a layer of paint so thick that the boards wouldnt show, or with something else that was later painted.

[Gregory J. Liebau]

[Johan Gemvik]

Gregory, since you beat me to it I'll just add and comment some things to your post instead.

There are pine shield finds from viking age. Not many shields found though so not much to go from. Lindenwood is an even softer wood and although no finds have it so far it's mentioned in historical sources as the best material. Both are fairly strong but light woods. Lindenwood is almost as light as balsa, and still plenty strong. I've use it for light axe shafts, and it's stronger than quite a few other wood types.

If facing in fabric are used you can laminate it to the boards to increase the durability of a shield several times over. Glue lamination also helps making a nice canvasy surface for heraldic painting. Looking at 13th to 15th centuy pavise shilelds I've studied tears in the layers in you can see it's wood, covered with one or more layers of leather, then on top of that linen, all laminated together, then painted. This might have been used for earlier shield too, in full or in part.

[Gregory J. Liebau]

[Matthew Amt]

I would agree that the emphasis was on lightness for the choice of wood, including pine, poplar, linden, birch, etc. Oak and ash are just too heavy.

A while back there was a similar discussion about round shields on the Armor Archive, and we discussed how to make them dished. My thought was that they would not make flat planks and then bend them, but make the planks to the shape they needed. In part I'm reminded of barrel-making (coopering), though for that the staves are indeed heated and bent to shape. Harder to do that with a shield, unless you have a sturdy form of some sort (barrel staves are basically braced against each other for that process). But it would be simple to use an adze to shape the planks to the curvature needed. A modern way to copy the effect would be to start with much thicker wood, say 4 inches, glue several slabs together, then use whatever tools you can get to round off the outside and hollow out the inside.

Matthew

[Gregory J. Liebau]

K, so instead of talking out of my *** I decided to sift through the German book and find the wood types used for the shields observed by Jan Kohlmorgen. Here's what I came up with.

The first shield observed, and probably the most popular, was almost certainly a war shield. This is the shield of the Herren von Brienze, dated between 1180-1225. It is probably a war shield because a) it shows signs of having its top removed at some point in time, probably for use, and b) it is relatively thick, at 15mm. This shield is made of adler.

The rest of the shields are mostly considered funerary pieces (totenschilds) but a few were probably war-ready. Out of the next 10 shields examined, all are made of ! But, their thicknesses are usually quite thin, ranging between 7 and 10mm for the most part, with that of Heinrich I. von Hessen (c. 1292-1308) being 15mm and that of Burggrafen von Stromberg (c. 1300) being 12mm. Most have outrageous decoration and were obviously preserved as funeral pieces. At least three are merely painted without any extravagances, though.

Almost all of these shields have viable (and often very unique!) grip positioning, showing extreme variation in German shields between 1200-1300. The later ones are also considered totenschilds and what I get from the glancing is that they were also lindenwood.

Considering that it is highly doubtful that they just used lindenwood because it was for funeral pieces, I retract my earlier statement - if you want to make an accurate war shield from the continent, I would suggest carefully considering the use of linden. It was light, a favorite among continental woodworkers for all sorts of crafts and readily available.

Cheers!

-Gregory

[Mackenzie Cosens]

[David Gaál]

I would like to recommend you to look at the first volume of Sir Francis Laking's A record of european arms and armour at the begining there is a topic norman period and general history A. D. 1100-1320. Not the same but also read The true shield of the XVth century topic from the second volume. And perhaps look at that: http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manu...hields.htm Here you can find the book: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=A%20r...0centuries

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

Well, looks like I'm going to have to learn German.
The references he uses, and archeaological examples are sweet

[William P]

[Randall Moffett]

OK. First off expect to make some guesses as we just do not know and my guess if that most remaining shields from the high medieval period and late period are not what was used in battle. That said they likely follow similar patterns.

Here is an account that at least gives materials-

May 5th, 1410, CPR of Henry IV, vol. IV, p. 224
Commission to Richard Isak, ' sheldmaker,' to take glue, horns, Westminster, hides and timber called 'lynde' and other necessaries for making certain shields for the king's use, and to take also men of his mistery.

Keep in mind this is a minimum as the last part of the account indicates there were other materials used but the detail of the earlier parts should give you what you need to start with.

That said I do not think of shields of being disposable. Nor indestructible, but they seem to be expected to last for some duration. One reason is that anything that was made to be destroyed in short order would require one of several things on a campaign. One is a huge number of extra shields, which you usually do not see, at least compared to other none disposable things. As well you'd need to have a much higher percentage of shield makers than other auxiliary tradesmen which does not happen either. As well men were often required to return the shield along with other arms and armour borrowed. If it was expected they would not survive they would not require them back.

My testing in this seems to be focusing on raw hide at the moment. I am finding that even if the wood gets deformed or broke this holds it together and keeps it rather solid. Leather seems to be one of the reoccurring parts of a shields construction in remaining ones and accounts and those I have seen or read about could very easily be of raw hide like leather.

Good luck and let us know how your shields turn out.

RPM

[Matthew Amt]

[Gregory J. Liebau]

I'd like to note that the use of seems to make some sense from a practical perspective if I'm getting my facts straight. Reading about the wood, even though it is light and soft, it is also supposedly quite a resistant and hard to break wood based on its grain patterns. Its ready availability in central Europe made it a favorite wood for many sorts of crafts in the Medieval era, such as sculpting.

After reading the reports by Jan Kohlmorgen, I'm convinced it must have been a viable and popular wood for general shield construction. I don't think that the fact that a majority of remaining shields are funerary pieces ought to have much to do with the functional nature of the artifacts. Was Edward III's funerary sword or gauntlets made to a lower quality than other items? Have we ever found any reasonable quantity arms and armor buried with a body that obviously weren't at least as good a quality as those used on the battlefield, from blades to helmets? I can't think of any, really.

Shield craftsmen would have had particular woods readily available for any commission at any given time. I assume a majority of shields were made for combat, and have some trouble assuming they kept a pile of "non-functional" wood laying around just for the odd commission of a funerary piece that came up from time to time.

(EDIT)

Almost missed this!

[Petr S]

There is already similar topic http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=16750.
The wood should be linden, alder or similar "foamy" wood - the needed property is not to shatter easily, and be light. The sturdiness is achieved by raw hide, and also by covering the shield on both side, so you basicaly have a sandwich raw hide-wood - rawhide, which is reasonably light and very reliable. You can replace rawhide by linen canvas, but it is less durable.
For example, my shield is 140 cm long and 75 cm wide, weights appx. 6 kilos. You can fight with it for hours, thanks to shoulder strap used in breaks. I have it for 3 year, it went through heavy beatings and is virtually untouched.

[Scott Moore]

From the Anglo Saxon poem" The Battle of Maldon":

The sea-men's army feared not the flood.
Blood-wolves waded west through Panta
Clear through the current's crystal water
Bore they their linden-shields to the strand.

While the battle in question took place a little before kite shields were the prevailing fashion ,it seems reasonable that linden would have continued to be a favored wood.

[William P]

just a point about weight vs protection for shields as someone with a big shield i can attest that in a war situation lightness is favourable,
i mean im a person who uses my shield vigorously every 2 weeks or so, but mine is a roundshield that overall weighs 4.5kg, after a few bashes my left arm is tired as hell, a thinner shield would be potentially more destructible but your first priority is to survive, and for that you need to be able to be somewhat nimble. so even if pine isnt as strong, (and roundshields were oftenrawhide covered anyway) as oak, even if your shield is smashed to pieces? so what, if you win the fight, you take the OTHER GUYS shield.
its like the arguements about blocking with the flat to avoid damaging ones sword. one line ive heard 1000 times is that you worry about yourself first, and your sword later. you dont not block a stroke for fear of nicking the blade after all. if itll save your life you block it.

[Randall Moffett]

William,

Not sure your logic is solid.... you loose your shield then take the other guys shield? He certainly is not going to give it to you in a battle. If your shield is destroyed in battle that is not a so what, that is a my enemy now has a shield and a huge advantage over me (in most situations) and now my chances of surviving have just dived. Now wearing a guy out is great and all but your shield being destroyed in a battle is not a so what moment.

As for the flat verse edge.... please lets not.

RPM

[William P]

[Gregory J. Liebau]

William,

A) Have you ever tried to pry a shield out of a dead man's hand while standing in the middle of a raging battle while surrounded by mortal enemies? Not to mention one that might be wrapped around his shoulder with a guige strap?

B) Have you ever tried to fight with a shield that has a sword stuck in it, much less turn around after you kill its wielder and try to fight someone else with it?

C) Have you considered the damage sustained by your opponent's shield or whether or not he even has a shield you would want to pick up? Do you want to pick up your enemy's shield and then have the possibility of being recognized as the enemy due to some sort of personal or heraldic symbol on the shield's face?

There is not a lot of logic to assuming that you'll get to play with your opponent's arms amidst a battle, and there is little evidence to support such an idea except perhaps dispersed randomly through some heroic sagas or during particular lulls in combat when things like arrows and weapons were recycled to maintain fighting capabilities. Even so, it would be sparse evidence, at that. What *you* might consider doing in combat, having never been in mortal, hand-to-hand fighting with a shield, may have made very little sense to a man who was actually involved in such affairs for a variety of reasons.

-Gregory

[Jean Thibodeau]

I think you want a shield built strongly enough that it will still be usable to the end of a battle but might be too damaged to be worth repairing and would have to be replaced: if the shield fails in the middle of a battle it's not so good.

One would avoid going into battle with a previously damaged shield if at all possible and either have it repaired or replaced first.

Where we might overbuild our modern shields is in wanting them to be able to be usable for a longer time than would have been expected in period.

As to wood type, resilience for shock resistance being the priority and cut resistance wouldn't be dependant on the wood being a very hard so much but rather on surface and edge reinforcements, raw hide and or metal rims, leather or linen glued to the surfaces.

You want to deflect heavy blows when possible and the wood being elastic with blows bouncing off and keeping the shield light and hopefully receiving only light damage and be reparable..