[Jen Miilu]

Good Evening everyone!

I love the work of Christian fletcher, Triton scabbards and the like.

but there to expensive for me at this point plus my word they take for ever!

Does anyone make or know some one who makes inexpensive wood core scabbards?

Thank you

J

[Valentino Paolilla]

There are many who make great custom scabbards. If you want to go all out & pay a nice amount of money, & wait a nice amount of time (due to their booked schedules) for fantastic/custom work; Christian Fletcher & Brian Kunz of DBK are the answer. But if you also want fantastic/custom work without paying an abundance of money, nor have to wait a long period of time; then Sonny Suttles of Valiant Armoury is the way to go.

You can check out his profile on here; Sonny Suttles...
Or you can view these links...

www.valiant-armoury.com
www.customswordshoppe.com

Or if you have a Facebook account, you can see his work on there as well.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1512...amp;type=1

[Christopher Treichel]

I make my own out of laminated basswood slats obtained from the local craft store model building section... I laminate them two layers thick and the moisture from the wood glue is enough to warp them into shape arround the blade which I cover in fat... sanded down... then a layer of linnen... sanded down and then a layer of leather.

[Michael B.]

What type of price were you looking for? I think paying as much as you paid for the sword or even more, is to be expected for a good scabbard. Just the cost of the leather alone in making one, not including the time to shaped the wood, and work the leather, is fairly high. I have two custom jobs that are happening right now, and plan on making my own scabbards for the sake of the experience.

[JE Sarge]

If I buy a scabbard, I always have Sonny Suttles / CSS do them now. He offers scabbards equal in quality to others for much, much less $$$ without a months long wait.

However, when I am not working abroad - I make my own scabbards. It is truly the cheapest way, I can typically turn one out for under $40 in materials - which includes leather cover, buckles, etc. It's requires a minimum investment of tools and such, but most of this stuff either you (or your parents) will already have. Below is a link to a good tutorial:

http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_scabbard.asp

It toyed with the idea for sometime before trying it a few years ago. However, once I tried it - I liked doing it. Now, I can whip out a scabbard from start to finish in about 2 days, and in one case, I have done it in 1 day. You really should try it yourself sometime, with practice it is not hard to get results that look every bit as good as anything you could buy.

[Tristán Zukowski]

Not to derail this into a "make your own" thread, but I'm curious: out of the various methods mentioned already to shape the wooden core, which is a more historically authentic method..

Soaking and bending (seems reasonable to me):

[Jeffrey Faulk]

I can personally attest that the 4-piece 'sandwich' method is fairly effective. The primary issue with it is that it's not fitted specifically to the sword blade aside from the outline; it's essentially a long narrow box that fits the sword's edge. As such, it's not a particularly tight scabbard unless you make it just a wee bit tight against the sides of the blade. Then that makes it difficult to draw/sheathe... ah well!

Historically, I'd say they used both the soak-and-bend method and chiseling it out; whichever happened to be most convenient at the time. It's unfortunate that more historical scabbards haven't been preserved very well to the point that the actual well-preserved ones really can't be taken apart now because they're too rare...

[Jen Miilu]

I agree!
Making them is much cheaper and not all that hard to do, unfortunatelty i have moved and have no tools with me, so i am out of luck on that.

Im looking at a budget of 150- 200$
Any one willing to take on a scabbard project?

I'll shoot Sunny an IM to.

J

[Brian K.]

"It's all in the details"

I'd like to add my own .02 cents here, and try to answer some questions. I don't necessarily want this to sound like a rant, but more of a educational point of view.

Historically, scabbards have been known to cost as much or more than the sword. While it may not appear so, there is a tremendous amount of labor that goes into a scabbard when done historically accurate, and especially when following a design. It's all in the details from chape to throat. If you want to look at it from a collector's standpoint, the sword is the picture, and the scabbard is the frame. You can hang a picture on the wall and it still looks decent, but when you add a frame, the picture comes alive and they compliment each other. The better looking the frame is, the better looking they both look.

Even though a collector may not ever use the scabbard, it is still a very complimentary part of the sword that completes the 'picture' persay. I consider myself an artist, or artisan, and most of my customers are purchasing very functional art. I've gone to great lengths to become skilled at my art, not only aesthetically, but historical aspects as well tie into my work. It isn't just the outside of the scabbard either. I work very hard on the inside as well. From the wool lining, to the form fitting shape. High-end scabbards aren't for everyone, for sure, but once you have a nice 'custom' scabbard, I assure you that you will feel different about them.

If you're thinking "but why so much"? Well, it's all hand labor. With all that is 'manufactured' by machine today there is a lack of understanding of hand labor and the hourly cost that applies to it. Almost everything made today is made by machines, mass-produced to keep the cost down. That is why things that do require hand-labor are made overseas, to keep the cost down because the labor is cheaper. On average I spend 30 to 40 hours per scabbard. Some are less intensive and some are much, much more. What would you want to be paid for that amount of time? Could I do it in less time? Sure, but at what cost? It's all in the details. Then you have to consider the cost of materials. I use premium materials and hardware. The metal chapes are handmade for each order to the design specification of the customer. The leather I use is the highest quality and therefore the highest price. Why do I use higher quality leather? It looks better, for one reason. It also tools better, dyes better and lasts longer. People often say "they just don't make it like they use to anymore". Well, I do.

"But what is the difference, and why pay more?" you say? Well, the differences can't necessarily be demonstrated through pictures alone. But the fit & functionality are more precise in a high-end scabbard. The sliding action of the blade going in and out are taken into consideration. The angle at which the scabbard will hang at your side is going to be different for each and every blade, then taken into consideration, and adjusted as such to a preferential angle. The finish and color of the leather is a mastered art. Anyone can apply a color to a leather and spray on a leather finish. But done correctly, the color is beautiful & elegant, and the finish is complimentary. Not splotchy and with a sprayed-on high gloss sheen that washes out the details.

Leather patterns and decorations are another thing to consider when observing a low-end scabbard versus a high-end scabbard. Historical leather patterns and decorations were hand-tooled in with various tools and blades. Every detail is hand applied from curves to corners and long straight lines. There were no lasers to burn in a 'coat-of-arms' or other such imagery. Sure, they made stamps for repetitive imagery, but the hand-tooled and one-of-a-kind designs are much, much more desired making the look far more valuable and collectible.

Essentially, I'm only trying to place an understanding of differences between low-end and high-end. The echelon has a reason. From handmade chapes, fit of the blade, shape of the wood core, sliding action of draw, historical buckles & belt tips, hand-tooled designs, leather coloring, leather finishing, and I could go on and on. You get what you pay for. For a simple analogy, try this; You could go to a big box furniture store where that end table you have been wanting fills a need. But once you get it home you start to notice the details & finish. It doesn't look like that cabinet you inherited from your Grandfather. It certainly won't last as long either.

[Rex Metcalf]

I usually do my own scabbards as well this is one I did for my XIV with Urnes style carving on curly maple: http://ranger.budgetauthenticity.org/forum/vi...&t=788

Mr Sarge, can I ask where you get your leather the veg tanned calf skin from Waterhouse was, I thought, a steal at $60.00 and some change but $40.00 for all the materials ....This excites me

[Rex Metcalf]

[Quinn W.]

Regarding the supposedly high cost, I run a small business selling leather-based artwork, and my dad is a contractor who has dealt frequently with the technicalities and woodworking that are likely somewhat similar to scabbard making in some aspects. Between the two of us we guessed at the hours and material costs involved (thanks Brian for providing the actual hours) and we were surprised that something with that level of detail and precision could be sold for so little!

[Nathan Robinson]

You know, there's plenty of room for a full range of options in scabbards. As a consumer, I enjoy having choices that include various price ranges, finish options, and the like. I find it confusing when people start to drift into black-and-white thinking and discount the value offered by the power of choice.

[Sonny Suttles]

[Brian K.]

[Sonny Suttles]

I thought I would post the project in this thread since it kinda started here anyway.

I was sent a Gus Trim sword that had the guard as well as the pommel welded to the blade. No handle core or anything.

He is a photo of the sword as it was.



And this is what became of it.

[Jen Miilu]

Hello Everyone!
God Sunny, he is going to love that sword.

What great work you have done and for such a fair price!


Thank you for posting the pictures!


J

[Artis Aboltins]

Another thing that people tend to overlook, I believe, is the amount of research that is required to create a scabbard that will look and perform like the originals. Like Brian said, nearly anyone can do the basics - and I have done a fair amount of scabbards of various levels of accuracy to say that making a "basic scabbard" that will hold your blade and protect it, at least, somewhat, is not that hard. However, once you decide to create something that is closer to originals, you start running into problems that can be, in my opinion, only overcome by studying the originals closely - and just reading publications is not enough. Much can be learned from the published materials, sure, but nothing can replace examining surviving originals, as there are all those little things that create a whole picture - from the way leather is sewn/glued to the originals to the way scabbard chape is affixed to it, to wear patterns that indicate how exactly wold scabbard be worn/carried. As result, properly researched and masterfully crafted scabbard is whole different matter than something you just throw together as a quick evening project to protect the blade from moisture. Look at, say, Paul Chen's Practical sword series that come with the fiberglass scabbard. Will that scabbard protect the sword from damage during transportation? Yes it will. Will it be in any way historically accurate? Not at all, nor is it intended to be. Then take a look at one of the scabbards high-end scabbard makers tends to make, and at least on some of the funerary brasses of the same period that scabbard would be appropriate for, and you will see that it looks in such a way that it could have been used by that knight in the funerary brass. And that is not simply because custom makers are very skilled artesians - that is also because they have studied the originals and that research takes time and money, and not insignificant one. It is the same as with swords themselves - there is huge amount of low-end swords out there, and they serve their purpose. However, if you ever had a chance to have a proper high-end sword replica in your hand, you will be easily able to tell the difference - from the first look, the difference might not be all that huge, but once you pick them up... and you can only learn to craft swords that will be like the originals from studying the originals. Pictures and descriptions can only help so much.

Long rambling story made short - research costs time and money that craftsman has to acquire from somewhere, and as result that is part of the price you have to pay for the scabbard or sword or any other items you buy.

[Jen Miilu]

Interesting thoughts there Artis,

Keep in mind this thread is about finding a person who does great work for a fair price.
Not why should We pay top dollar for scabbards.

[Kel Rekuta]