Identifing this helmet -- myArmoury.com

James Matkin · Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 3:33 am Post subject: Identifing this helmet

I know another identify/clarify this thread, but I have had no luck with this one.

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/files/scan0002_668.jpg

This helm is called a casque by R. Thomas, although the Wallace Collection lists it as a burgonet of 1510 from Milan and an unknown owner and armorer.

It closely resembles the 'famous spiked' helm in general construction, with the obvious distinction of fluting vs spikes. The 'spiked' helm shows signs that it may have once had the cheek flaps but the questionable one shows no empty rivet holes to suggest the same. So did it have none or was it worn in conjunction with another face/neck armor?

I am trusting the origin and dating, but I can not find any other visual or written reference to this particular helm. With the historic tendency of northern Italy to export arms and armor is it safe to assume that a few pieces may have been found elsewhere?

I am finding this a very enigmatic helm. Very little info, odd construction, and for some reason intriguing.

Added:
Can't believe that I did not even ask what I was most interested in.
1. Does anyone have any other photos of this helm?
2. Does the fluting run across the the entire width of the bowl or is there a small crest running down the middle?
3. Any idea if this style made it to England?
4. Any idea on the dimensions?

Robert Hinds · Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 8:55 am Post subject:

I'm sorry I don't have any information on the helm your interested in, but in case you might find it interesting, heres a pic of a similar helm I got from somewhere on myArmoury (cant remember where).

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject:

Casque=burgonet. No conflict there. And, yes, the general type did make it to England. In fact, there's an unrelated thread here that demonstrates the fact with an image of ca. 1540:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 05 Jul, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject:

Two essential threads for you:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...andsknecht

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=burgonet

James Matkin · Posted: Wed 06 Jul, 2011 11:47 pm Post subject:

I am aware that the general design of the burgonet made it to England. But I am interested in this particular style.

There are some design issues that I have not found in any other helm.

1. The back of the bowl is short of a complete hemisphere, when most burgonet feature at least that

2. Due to this there are lames covering the back of the head, besides the 'spiked' helm I can not find other examples of the lames starting this high

3. Does it have no check flaps or was it worn in conjunction with another face/neck armor?