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Patrick Kelly
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 Posted: Sun 26 Sep, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: Viking repro pommel construction pics......... |
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There are some interesting pics of a nordic style sword in this thread, made by Vladimir Cervenka for one R.E.Oxley. These illustrate some interesting points of viking pommel construction.
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...adid=41622
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Gabriel Stevens
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| Posted: Sun 26 Sep, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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Is the tang split and then a wedge driven down the middle to secure the blade?
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Gary Grzybek
Location: Stillwater N.J. Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Sun 26 Sep, 2004 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Gabriel Stevens wrote: | | Is the tang split and then a wedge driven down the middle to secure the blade? |
That's what it looked liked to me. It would be cool to hear Peter's view of this because Viking hilt assembly is still a bit of a mystery to me 
Anyway, it looks like pretty decent stuff.
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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R. E. Oxley
Location: Georgia, USA Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Sun 26 Sep, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Guys,
I believe the split end and wedge construction is how Mr. Cervenka secures the tang to the upper guard. As I only received the pics this weekend, I have yet to ask Mr. Cervenka about construction details. I told him the sword would be used for extensive cutting and he guarantees the strength of this construction method. As to whether it is a period construction technique, I don't know and Peter's input would be greatly appreciated. I would like to say that others have praised Mr. Cervenka's work as being very well done. I found it a pleasure to work with him. He is a fine craftsman and a true gentleman! 
Rob
I didn't know she was an Otter Princess when I married her! Although, her small, laughing eyes and love of shellfish should have betrayed her true nature to me.
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Gabriel Stevens
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| Posted: Sun 26 Sep, 2004 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Oh yeah the sword looks beautiful, no doubt.
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Dave A.
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| Posted: Mon 27 Sep, 2004 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Very nice sword,the tang appears to be peened and wedged should be very strong.
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R. E. Oxley
Location: Georgia, USA Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I will relate what Mr. Cervenka has communicated to me regarding the construction of the pommel on this sword. He utilizes a method whereby the end of the tang is divided and peened into place in a recessed area of the upper guard. As this process occurs, the wedge is firmly forced into the divided area at the tang end. Apparently, this is accomplished in such a way that the tang itself is not harmed by the force of the wedge. The tang end and wedge are peened tightly into the recess and then the pommel cap is attached to the upper guard. Mr. Cervenka explained that this type of construction was derived through observation of similar methods used on Celtic weapons. He insists that this will yield a very strong hilt that will not loosen or fail. However, the proof is in the pudding. I will have it next month and then I will determine the strength of this construction technique.
There you have it, folks. 
I would like to take the opportunity to thank Patrick for referencing my SFI thread and providing such a warm welcome to me here at myArmoury.......................... 
Special thanks go out to Mike Fletcher, Tristan at Albion and Peter Johnsson for taking the time to answer my questions and making me feel truly welcome.
Also, thank you Gabriel Stevens and Dave A. for the compliments.
Best,
Rob
I didn't know she was an Otter Princess when I married her! Although, her small, laughing eyes and love of shellfish should have betrayed her true nature to me.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the information Rob. Please tell us more when you have the sword in hand, as this looks like an interesting method of construction.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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R. E. Oxley
Location: Georgia, USA Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Thanks for the information Rob. Please tell us more when you have the sword in hand, as this looks like an interesting method of construction. |
Patrick,
Apparently sarcasm is lost on you. I take slight offence at being called "one R. E. Oxley". Also, I do not appreciate the fact that I posted on this thread regarding your reference to my original SFI thread and you did not welcome me. This seems ill mannered to me. Please do not reference my SFI threads again and, if you cannot bring yourself to welcome me properly, you may delete my registration with this forum.
I didn't know she was an Otter Princess when I married her! Although, her small, laughing eyes and love of shellfish should have betrayed her true nature to me.
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| R. E. Oxley wrote: | | Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Thanks for the information Rob. Please tell us more when you have the sword in hand, as this looks like an interesting method of construction. |
Patrick,
Apparently sarcasm is lost on you. I take slight offence at being called "one R. E. Oxley". Also, I do not appreciate the fact that I posted on this thread regarding your reference to my original SFI thread and you did not welcome me. This seems ill mannered to me. Please do not reference my SFI threads again and, if you cannot bring yourself to welcome me properly, you may delete my registration with this forum. |
No Mr. Oxley, sarcasim is not lost on me. I do, however, choose to ignore it when it pollutes an otherwise informative thread. Since you have taken offense where none was intended let me formally say "Welcome to myArmoury Mr. Oxley". Registrations are not arbitrarily deleted here, that's strictly you preference. I referenced your thread here because I do not have the ability to reply at SFI. Mt intention was to share an interesting bit of information with the rest of our community. If this offends you I shall certainly never make the attempt again in this regard.
Once again, welcome to myArmoury Mr. Oxley.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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R. E. Oxley
Location: Georgia, USA Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 67
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Patrick,
The fact that you have responded in this manner makes me feel much better about sharing information on this forum. I understand now that it was not your intention to offer a slight, so I must beg your forgiveness for being defensive. I did not understand the nature of your reference to my SFI thread. I did not know you could not access that forum. That is the only reason I thought it a bit strange that it appeared here.
Well, let's put this behind us if we may. I will glady share all the information I have about his sword and all other future projects.
Thank you very much for the welcome!
Best,
Rob
Edit: Thanks Patrick for being so civil. Nathan wasn't.
Nathan, it is your baby. Your people were rude. Ban me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't know she was an Otter Princess when I married her! Although, her small, laughing eyes and love of shellfish should have betrayed her true nature to me.
Last edited by R. E. Oxley on Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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No worries Rob.
And do give us details on this sword when you receive it. This is one of those makers that we don't hear much about.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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| Posted: Thu 30 Sep, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| R. E. Oxley wrote: |
Nathan, it is your baby. Your people were rude. Ban me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Fine. You're banned. No place for this BS here on this site. You have the distinction of being only person #2 to get banned. Congrats.
I won't have anybody come onto my site and not only immediately jump into being sarcastic, but then start chastizing the members here (and a moderator, to boot), and then bark orders. That's ill-mannered to the extreme and won't happen here. His appology was well-received and would have ended it, had he been able to refrain from further barking orders as seen in the above quote.
Now: Back on topic. Any questions from anybody can be sent to me via PM.
Thanks for your understanding.
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
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Robert W. Betten
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 2:02 am Post subject: |
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^^^ 
The construction pics in the SFI thread are quite interesting...I concerned myself ALOT with japanese swords in my early sword days, and always though of the nordicpommels as one piece, mainly due to my lack of research. but the use of a wedge blew me away, it looks like it could act like a tapered shank on a drill, in the drill press its tight, wont move despite only being held on by the force of the taper. I wonder if there's a similar principal here?
it'd be interesting to experiment with as to the strength of such a construction method.
*!*
"If the people we love are taken from us,
the way they live on is to never stop loving
them. Buildings burn, people die, but real
love is forever." - Sarah 'The Crow'
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| R. E. Oxley wrote: | I will relate what Mr. Cervenka has communicated to me regarding the construction of the pommel on this sword. He utilizes a method whereby the end of the tang is divided and peened into place in a recessed area of the upper guard. As this process occurs, the wedge is firmly forced into the divided area at the tang end. Apparently, this is accomplished in such a way that the tang itself is not harmed by the force of the wedge. The tang end and wedge are peened tightly into the recess and then the pommel cap is attached to the upper guard. Mr. Cervenka explained that this type of construction was derived through observation of similar methods used on Celtic weapons. He insists that this will yield a very strong hilt that will not loosen or fail. However, the proof is in the pudding. I will have it next month and then I will determine the strength of this construction technique.
There you have it, folks.
I would like to take the opportunity to thank Patrick for referencing my SFI thread and providing such a warm welcome to me here at myArmoury..........................
Special thanks go out to Mike Fletcher, Tristan at Albion and Peter Johnsson for taking the time to answer my questions and making me feel truly welcome.
Also, thank you Gabriel Stevens and Dave A. for the compliments.
Best,
Rob |
Hey there,
The sword in question is an interesting interpretation of a viking sword. I have never seen this method of mounting a hilt on a viking age sword, but I am sure it works well.
Usually the tang is just peened in a recess on the upper guard. No wedge.
I am sorry if Mr R. E. Oxley have taken offense by me failing to notice there was a question directed at me in this thread.
Sorry about that, it was not intentional but simply a result of me neglecting to read this thread.
These days are very busy as is always the case before a biannual trip to Albion .
It is hard to find time to answer e-mails properly, not to mention follow the discussions on the forum. I do not go through all new posts and threads so it it easy to miss things once in a while. My biggest concern these days is getting enough time in the smithy to get some work done.
Why this thread should have stirred such hot emotions is beoynd me.
Canīt we just leave this behind us and scratch it as an unfortunate case of miscommunication?
I would much like to have opportunity to talk to R.E.Oxely in coming discussions.
I would also like to read about his reactions on the sword when he gets it.
Hope this event can get a more happy an confilct free solution.
One reason I do not post at the SFI forum these days is that many of those I enjoyt having discussions with have been banned. It is impossible to have good discussions when many of those involved cannot enter replies or posts because of banning. It would be unfortunate if this forum was crippled by banning as well.
But for this to work we all need to keep the cool and not begin with assuming the worst in any given situation.
(and, yes, I know: I should perhaps not be the one who talks about keeping ones temper, but at least I try not venting too often on discussion forums...)
With the best intentions
Peter
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Fri 01 Oct, 2004 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Thankfully these kinds of things are rare here. The whole situation is suprising and very unfortunate.
The use of a wedge in the tang securement is a very interesting method of securement. I've never read about that method being used and, while it seems like a bit of over engineering to me, it should work. Mr. Cervenka stated that he has observed this method in Celtic sword construction, so that's good information. I would have liked to hear more on this from Mr. Cervenka as well as Rob's impression of the sword. It's a sad turn of events.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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