Getting rid of the secondary bevel on a H/T Viking. -- myArmoury.com

Ian Hutchison

Hello all,

I just bought a H/T Viking as a project piece (new grip, re-do the scabbard, other touches) and one of the first things I want to do is get rid of the secondary bevel.
Would it be possible to re-shape the edge into an apple seed form? Should I use a file, stones or just sand papers?

Any tips appreciated,

Ian

Michael Edelson · Posted: Sun 29 May, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject:

European (medieval) swords were generally shaped/sharpened on grinding wheels, then likely honed with hand tools (no idea what kind). I wouldn't think you'd want ot get rid of the seconday bevel, but maybe you want to reshape it to be more historically correct instead of the nasty thin machine ground thing you have on that sword now. You might want to get a small grinder from Harbor Freight ($40) and a series of belts that end with a leather honing strop. The only problem with that is your bevel would be sharpened perpendicular to the rest of the sword, making the edge shiny and quite distinct.

Once sharpened the sword would be periodically honed. I have no idea how, but probably also on a wheel and then perhaps a strop. You can actually see a distinct edge in period swords, such as this example in the Metropolitain Museum of art:

Aleksei Sosnovski · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 1:56 am Post subject:

Well, wheels and strops are cool, but I think that the majority of the swords was sharpened by much simpler tools. A medium sharpening stone moved lengthwise is enough to make a good cutting edge with little effort. A fine sharpening stone moved same way will make a paper-cutting edge. Same technique is used for sharpening scythes. And it is actually the way I was sharpening my knives until I bought myself some good large stones that allow to move the blade across the stone (at 45 to 90 degrees to the edge) rather than moving the stone along the edge. Same stones can be used to create convex (apple seed) edge. Stropping is needed if one wants to make his sword razor-sharp. That of course makes cutting much easier but I don't think that it was a norm for European swords.

Julien M · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 3:25 am Post subject:

I've done it on several windlass before,using a file, and it was fairly easy.

I believe the hanwei tinker might have a better temper, and being harder this might prove too much efforts. In any case, if you plan on removing that secondary bevel, you will leave file/grind marks on the blade, and I find that correcting that requieres much more work than removing the bevel itself. The tinker viking is peened, so dismounting the blade to redo the finish won't be an option.

Stone are also a way to go, but getting a small belt grinder and using a slack belt (without the guard behind allowing the belt to be a bit flexible) is probably the quickest and easiest solution to get an appleseed edge. Use 120 grit at slow speed. Wrap some masking tape on the blade below the guard to remind you were you want to stop...again you don't want to get too close to the hilt in order to redo the finish properly. Then using 120 grit sandpaper or higher, lenghtwise, you should overcome the sideway grind marks. Then go finer to refine the polish.

J

Ian Hutchison · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 9:31 am Post subject:

Thank you all for your insights.

Julien, right now I'm thinking about using a file to remove the material and then fine sand paper or steel wool to polish. I imagine this will take many hours though.

Was using the belt sander difficult? I've read that it is easy to remove too much with a belt sander, did you find that the case?

Julien M · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 10:02 am Post subject:

Ian Hutchison · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 11:36 am Post subject:

Timo Nieminen · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject:

Ian Hutchison · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject:

Good to hear Timo, previous discussions had led me to think it might take approximately 20 hours of filing/polishing.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 9:08 pm Post subject:

What you have with a secondary bevel is a well define bevel/ridge line and what you want to do is to round that ridge line so as to blend it with the main bevel.

If the blade is already very sharp you want to touch the actual edge the least possible.

What I would do:

A) Use a diamond hone touching just the ridge line going along the blade. Doing it freehand and loosely should give you a rounded surface rather than another flat plane.

B) Using an abrasive sand paper of the same grit size as the main finish ( Albion type finish for example ). Wrap some of this abrasive paper around a small diameter steel rod or just tape it over you diamond hone rod.

Use on the ridge line overlapping into the main bevel and getting as close as you can to the edge but trying to not touch it.
( You will dull the edge a bit but it shouldn't take more than a few light passes at the end with the diamond hone to get it fully sharp again ).

NOTE: The abrasive paper wrapped around a few times will give you a flexible surface that should round any remaining ridge line and blend perfectly aesthetically with the main bevel finish. Retouching the edge may give you a very narrow secondary bevel but I think one would see this on any sword given a quick retouching of the edges even in period and still be considered to be an apple seed edge.

Even if there still remains a secondary bevel it will be almost impossible to distinguish from the main bevel.

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Mon 30 May, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject:

Ian, do you plan on cutting with this sword? When I get a new HT sword, I generally do a lot of cutting (some might call it abusing the way I do it) with it until the edges are pretty well shot. Then when I redo the edge it comes out looking very historically accurate, ground-out nicks and all. I look at my swords as tools, and think nothing of wacking helmets, shields and other blades with them. The more I cut with my swords, the less picky about finish and grind-marks I become. I find a well-used sword to be the most beautiful of all.

Ian Hutchison · Posted: Tue 31 May, 2011 8:43 am Post subject:

Thanks Jean, with everyone's advice I've got a much better understanding of how to go about this.

Scott,
Yes, I definitely intend to 'play' with the sword a bit before I start re-working it. I also agree that at this price-point I see it as a utilitarian object that you can get some enjoyment out of rather than a work of art (e.g. a Barta) so I wouldn't be too distressed by any blemishes either.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 6:56 am Post subject:

Julien M · Posted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 7:14 am Post subject:

Hey Jean,

Can you post a pict or link of that "diamond hone"? I asked about it a couple of years ago I remember, and bought one or what I thought to be one (kitchen knives stuff). I really messed things up with it at the time. I have other means to sharpen a sword now, but I'm still looking at an easy and quick way to touch up the edges. I was thinking of a small portable set of stone to be run down the lenght of the blade...but I'm curious about that diamond hone of yours too.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: