[Chris Goerner]

I have a question for all the Scottish basket hilt lovers out there...

I am familiar with the Glasgow and Stirling basket hilts, but I remember reading an article about a sword that was referred to as an Edinburgh hilt. I have since misplaced the article, and have been wondering what the author was referring to. Can anyone tell me what the distinguishing characteristics of an Edinburgh hilt would be? Photos would be great!

If I find the article again, I'll post it.

Thanks,
Chris

[Thomas McDonald]

Hi Chris

I've always taken the "Edinburgh-style" as your basic early 18th cen. baskethilt, kind of a combination of the Stirling & Glasgow styles! Narrow bars, flattened or oval, none of the real fancy fluting, etc., and topped with a domed pommel.

I'm not near a scanner at the moment ...... but Richard Bezdek's book "Swords & Swordmakers of England & Scotland" has a Scottish Infantry Officers broadsword, c. 1700-1710, which is described as having an "Edinburgh-style basket"
(page 371), also examples on pages 365, 369, 373 !

I'll post the pic when I get home ..... (I'm sure there's a similar pic in one of our albums here, but I dont have time to search right now ...... Later, Mac

[Thomas McDonald]

Chris

Here are those Edinburgh style baskethilts !

* Photo's - Richard Bezdek's, "Swords & Swordmakers of England & Scotland", 2003.

Mac

[David Wilson]

I've actually seen a couple of Pat Tougher's Edinburgh baskets up close, and they looked Glasgow to me. Those sort-of "Y" shaped cutouts on the saltire and side gaurds are the only distinctive features I could notice....

[Chris Goerner]

Mac -- thanks for posting those pictures. I really need to add "Swords & Swordmakers of England & Scotland" to my library!

David -- your observation about the shape of the piercings is intriguing. I have seen these piercings on brass baskethilts and a basket hilted saber in "The Swords and the Sorrows". None of those swords are attributed by the author to a particular region. I don't know that all such pierced hilts are necessarily of Edinburgh origin, but from the swords Mac posted photos of, do you think it's safe to say that's chiefly an attribute of the Edinburgh hilts?

[Thomas McDonald]

Checkout this Edinburgh made piece, from Pat Donnelly Antique Arms .... Mac

http://www.patdonnellyantiquearms.com/July200...p?item=238





238) A Scottish Dress Claymore bearing the Arms of the Campbells of Breadalbane, circa mid-to-late Victorian era. 32 1/4" double-edge blade with 2 fullers, finely etched with scrolls and foliage, retailer's name "Millidge & Sons 28 Princes St Edinburgh" , and the Campbell Boar's Head Erased (torn from shoulders) under the Breadalbane motto "Follow Me" . Gilt brass baskethilt with pierced panels and bars covered with engraving (thistles, etc.). The central guard panel devoid of piercing to allow the Arms of the Breadalbane Campbells to be engraved thereon (before gilding was applied). These arms consist of a shield with the Arms of Glenorchy over motto "Follow Me", supported by two stags, and surmounted by Campbell Boar's Head. The original buff leather and red baize liner in fine shape but for some edge wear from handling, and most of the fringe around the pommel is intact. Buff leather washer survives at base of blade. Original shagreen covered grip in excellent condition, retaining all of its gilt twisted wire wrapping. Aside from the high quality of the hilt's construction and decoration, one of its most attractive features is that instead of veering into the sometimes grotesque style of the "Highland Revival", it closely adheres to the appearance of an early 18th century "Glasgow" form of basket. Condition: Excellent blade retains 90% plus original bright polish with only minor areas of light staining. Hilt and scabbard mounts retain 98% original gilt with nearly no fading or wear. Scabbard leather sound and unrepaired, some scuffing and flaking but still very presentable. Stitching intact. Entire sword is in excellent plus condition, completely original with no repair or restoration of any sort. With the sword is its original leather sleeve cover, now in two pieces (leather is ok, but the stitching thread has deteriorated). Attached to it is an old tag with inscription in Victorian hand "Highland Claymore from _______" (cannot make name out), and on the other side "Cameron Highlanders 1st Battalion". In 1881, the 79th Regiment (Cameronians) were joined with the Highland Light Infantry Militia to form the Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders, the 1st Battalion of which was the old 79th, and the 2nd Battalion the previous H.L.I. Militia. I am unable to explain the tag's significance, but it is genuine and came on the cover. It would require research involving the Camerons and the last of the Earls or Marquises of Breadalbane to shed some light here. The sword and cover recently came "out of the woodwork" in the Philadelphia area, its past forgotten or unrevealed. An explanation of the Arms on the hilt is straightforward. "Sir Duncan Campbell, who eventually became Lord Campbell, passed the Lordship of Glenorchy to his son Colin in 1432......The Campbell knights of Glenorchy eventually became the Earls and then Marquises of Breadalbane, and expanded their estates into Strathtay, becoming almost as powerful as the Earls and Dukes of Argyll. But at the end of the 19th century their fortunes had evaporated and resulted in the loss of all the lands and properties". This included Taymouth Castle, seat of the Breadalbanes, where Albert and Victoria had been lavishly entertained. "Breadalbane quarters with the Stewart of Lorn, having for supporters, two stags, with the Motto "Follow Me". In the later 19th century, before financial collapse, the Breadalbane estates ran to 372,729 acres, with a rental return of 59,930 Pounds Sterling. Yet still they contrived to bankrupt themselves......the family's diminishment and dispersal may explain how the sword came to America. A splendid Highland Family sword, in beautiful condition. $8,500.00

P.S.) Have received from the Edinburgh Library the following regarding Millidge & Sons. "Thank you for your inquiry. Tracing the company through the Post Office Directories, they seem to have been in business between 1841 and 1890, at Princes St throughout. Millidge & Sons was a jeweller's" . These dates

would fit either the sixth Earl of Breadalbane or his son, the seventh Earl, who became a Marquis in 1885.

[E.B. Erickson]

Here's my way to distinguish Edinburgh from Glasgow: the hilt bars generally aren't as wide as in Glasgow, and they contain only a single groove, as opposed to the multi-groove or groove and line found on the Glasgow hilts.

This of course, needs not to be taken as gospel, as it's just a general observation, and I bet we could find an exception to it (but if we found an exception, how would we know unless the hilt was signed?).

--ElJay

[Chris Goerner]

ElJay -- I see what you mean about the grooves in the bars. What about David Wison's observation about the piercings? Do you believe that to be characteristic of the Edinburgh hilts as well?

Chris

[E.B. Erickson]

Hi Chris,
Dave's observation has some merit, as a lot of the Edinburgh hilts do have that non-heart type piercing. However, a number have "normal" heart shapes as well. One of those shown above by Thomas has the normal heart. One in a Bonham's auction of a couple of years ago had normal hearts. The Capt. Powell sword in Wallace has a variation of a normal heart piercing. In "Culloden TSATS" two Edinbugh baskets show up: 1:9 has the type Dave mentions, 1:19 has normal hearts.

Additionally, just to confuse things, there are non-Edinburgh hilts that have the non-heart piercing. 1:6 in "Culloden.." is an obvious Glasgow with these piecings. All the brass baskets I've ever seen have the non-heart piercing, and they folllow Glasgow styling (just remembered an exception: I've seen one brass hilt that was Striling style with normal hearts).

--ElJay