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Ben Bouchard




Location: Bar Harbor, ME
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Based on opinions I've heard from military folk, the average soldier has much more use for a chopping tool/quality fixed blade than they do for a bayonet--the quality of which has typically been relatively marginal. The usefulness of melee weapons hasn't decreased, just the usefulness of the bayonet in the variegated terrain and urban environments that most combat is occurring in these days.

I think that the most important factors for a modern combat sword would be ease of carry, a hilt design that gave reasonable protection without being likely to snag on things in their environment, the ability to be used as a tool, and an appearance that made its best means of use inherently known to the soldier (because let's face it--they aren't going to be teaching Talhoffer at boot camp!) I think what we'd be looking at would be something halfway between a large, broad bowie knife and a messer with a simple cross and side ring, a bird's beak pommel, and a blade with a sharpened clip point and centered tip for instinctive thrusting.

Happy
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Kurt Scholz





Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 390

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 7:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ben Bouchard wrote:
Based on opinions I've heard from military folk, the average soldier has much more use for a chopping tool/quality fixed blade than they do for a bayonet--the quality of which has typically been relatively marginal. The usefulness of melee weapons hasn't decreased, just the usefulness of the bayonet in the variegated terrain and urban environments that most combat is occurring in these days.

I think that the most important factors for a modern combat sword would be ease of carry, a hilt design that gave reasonable protection without being likely to snag on things in their environment, the ability to be used as a tool, and an appearance that made its best means of use inherently known to the soldier (because let's face it--they aren't going to be teaching Talhoffer at boot camp!) I think what we'd be looking at would be something halfway between a large, broad bowie knife and a messer with a simple cross and side ring, a bird's beak pommel, and a blade with a sharpened clip point and centered tip for instinctive thrusting.

Happy


You mean something a hirschfänger or a jagdplaute? http://www.waffensammler-kuratorium.de/hirschf/hirschtit.html
They can come with a really long saw on the backside. My taste would be to make them a bit heavier, like a cutlass.
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Jeremy V. Krause




Location: Buffalo, NY.
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 8:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have to think that if there were any use for this "modern millitary" sword object then it would exist. Billions of dollars of research and development are dumped into the war machine.

This perverbial sword doesn't exist, hence, it must have no use to the modern soldier.

IMHO
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Ben Bouchard




Location: Bar Harbor, ME
Joined: 17 Sep 2006

Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kurt Scholz wrote:
Ben Bouchard wrote:
Based on opinions I've heard from military folk, the average soldier has much more use for a chopping tool/quality fixed blade than they do for a bayonet--the quality of which has typically been relatively marginal. The usefulness of melee weapons hasn't decreased, just the usefulness of the bayonet in the variegated terrain and urban environments that most combat is occurring in these days.

I think that the most important factors for a modern combat sword would be ease of carry, a hilt design that gave reasonable protection without being likely to snag on things in their environment, the ability to be used as a tool, and an appearance that made its best means of use inherently known to the soldier (because let's face it--they aren't going to be teaching Talhoffer at boot camp!) I think what we'd be looking at would be something halfway between a large, broad bowie knife and a messer with a simple cross and side ring, a bird's beak pommel, and a blade with a sharpened clip point and centered tip for instinctive thrusting.

Happy


You mean something a hirschfänger or a jagdplaute? http://www.waffensammler-kuratorium.de/hirschf/hirschtit.html
They can come with a really long saw on the backside. My taste would be to make them a bit heavier, like a cutlass.


Not quite--think a tad shorter and a good deal more broad. But along similar lines, yes. I've got some sketches, but they're for my eyes only until I get one "in the flesh" Razz

I think that there IS a role that the sword could play in modern warfare, but that it would be a private purchase item rather than issued. And again, it would fill the role of a general purpose machete-like chopper as well as being used offensively.
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Colt Reeves





Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 466

PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr, 2011 11:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have been told from a number of sources that the "Tactical" weapons you see all over the place these days are related to those used by the armed forces in certain situations and are not intended for protection of one's home, despite what some people say and how some of them are advertised.

In one of Tinker Pearce's Sword Geek Podcasts he mentions this happening in Middle East, saying something along the lines of the troops fighting in caves like to toss a flashbang around the corner and then run in there with assorted pointy objects to sort the baddies out. Apparently this is safer than firing off lots of guns and tossing grenades around. "Technical issues" with that Tinker says, by which I assume bullets and grenades bouncing off of cave walls in an unexpected manner to be bad.

So, if this has some truth to it, the modern sword is a "Tactical" katana, tomahawk, or oversized bowie knife.



Edit: And if I ever wind up in the Special Forces and need me a "Tactical" weapon I will see if I can't get a short messer approved. Wink

"Tears are for the craven, prayers are for the clown.
Halters for the silly neck that cannot keep a crown.
As my loss is grievous, so my hope is small.
For Iron, Cold Iron, must be master of men all..."
-Cold Iron, Rudyard Kipling
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