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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Oct, 2003 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd be hesitant to say that something like this didn't exist because as soon as I say stuff like that someone pops up a photo to show that yep that one existed too. However just from a sales perspective I'd suggest a couple of little tweeks. 1) Change out the color of the fittings, it seems that most folks want a silver color not gold
2) Do something about that pommel, H, I, J, K, would be great, or if you want to keep that elongated form maybe a nice T.

Just my two cents (unrequested Happy ) on what would make this guy sell better.

TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Angus Trim




Location: Seattle area
Joined: 26 Aug 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 02 Oct, 2003 9:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Keith Larman wrote:
Actually this did all raise a question in my head. Please remember I'm a total neophyte about this stuff. I understand the Japanese sword and how the attributes were used, taken advantage of, etc. in terms of application. But I look at those wheel pommels Gus was talking about and wonder what function they provided. Is there some different grip or use for that wheel? Its just something that I can't seem to figure out. All swords, even the Japanese ones (go figure) usually have very strong, utilitarian reasons for everything they do. They may dress things up a bit, use nicer bits of metal, but usually the shapes, tapers, angles, etc. are all there for damned good reasons. Which as a side note is why it can be a bit dangerous to try mixing and matching things -- I understand that fully. But I always wondered about those wheel things.

On a lighter note I do remember thinking that they must be handy for hanging the swords up on the wall in the workshop if you build them... Laughing Out Loud


Hi Keith

I think initially, wheels and other wide pommel types were used primarily to help the grip stay intact. Several years ago, I lost a sword while "in the cut", and a wheel pommel would have prevented that. Over the last few years, I've seen others lose their swords "in the cut" too, and almost always, its a single hand cut, with a scentstopper type pommel.

In later period, I suspect that the dynamic balance might be a big factor in why wheel pommels persisted during the time that the scentstoppers are more plentiful for longswords. There is a noticeable difference in the handling of a sword, with different shaped pommels, *even when the pommels weigh the same*. Its that mass distribution stuff that some of us have talked about over the last five years, but all in a small space.

The longer the handle, the more that little differences in a pommel will effect things.

While at Benicia this year, I had both Greg Mele and Christian Tobler tell me that they thought that a beakbreaker {scentstopper} would be a better choice aesthetically for the German Longsword I brought with me. I countered with, the pommel that was on the sword was the best choice for harmonic and dynamic balance. *g* Since the weight difference was so small they couldn't see it, they could not see how a pommel change for aesthetic purposes could change the dynamic balance of a sword.....

*g*

Josh produced extra pommels in the right weight range, and a pair of vice grips, and we let the two of them play with them...trying different combos for quite some time. When they got thru, their judgement was that the wheel that was on the sword was the best choice, that the others did not feel as positive.....

*shrug*

I'm not educated enough to tell you the why's of this. But I do know what works..... having experimented constantly, having test cut constantly, I have a pretty good feel for what a sword of a certain type should feel like, and how its going to perform once its got its shot at a target...........

That's my guess..... that with some blades or blade types, a wheel works best for balance.... dynamic balance, not harmonic in this case..........

Its just a guess however........

Auld Dawg

swords are fun
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Keith Larman
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Location: Sunny Southern California
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Oct, 2003 9:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I suppose it would change out the balance slightly. I'm constantly reminded that the difference between a sword that handles like a dream and a sword that handles like a crowbar is often bloody well unmeasurable. I think the factors people forget to consider are that nothing exists in isolation. And as in chaos theory, we're talking about non-linear equations with everything feeding and affecting everything else. So it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that a slight redistribution of identical mass by changing the shape right on the end can have a profound effect on the handling and cutting characteristics of a sword. Heck, when I'm doing tsuka for my customers I often tell them I'd prefer to have some leeway during the mounting. I'll carve out the handle overlong and start feeling the blade with most of the fittings in place. And I must say that sometimes it stays long, sometimes it gets a bit shorter. And sometimes the difference is only a slight curvature in the nakago, of a little more taper here or there. But does it *ever* have an effect sometimes. I redid the tsuka on a sword fairly recently and the blade went from a leaden beast into a much lighter, faster feeling blade. And the new tsuka was only a 1/2" longer and I carved the new one to curve and taper a bit differently. But did it ever change the feel of the entire blade.

And since each one I do is unique (forged blades, custom fittings, etc.) the hardest part for me is getting things to handle as well as possible. Which is why I'm always warning customers to not overspec their custom swords to give both me and the smith as much leeway as possible to get it right.

I also hadn't thought of the notion that the wheel types are "flat" in a sense. I'm so used to the Japanese style which (in well done tsuka) has a super subtle "egg" tapering (very difficult for most to even notice) in the handle. So after some practice you realize you know *exactly* how aligned you are. That's also true with the pattern of wrapping so many tend to dismiss as being decorative -- those diamond openings are tactile reminders of the blade's orientation. In looking at the handle of the blade above it doesn't look like there's as much to "key on" with respect to edge angle. That wheel could provide one heck of a reminder vs. a rounded piece.

I guess I"m a bit surprised to hear about losing a sword grip during a cut. Man, in all the years I've *never* dropped one during use. Even wakizashi with their smaller grip and nothing to "block" it sliding out. Interesting.

Like I said earlier, little was ever done for just aesthetic reasons. It all matters. So thanks for the education on the pommels. Cool stuff.

Keith Larman
http://www.summerchild.com
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