Schiavona artwork -- myArmoury.com

Joe Pittman · Posted: Thu 20 Jan, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: Schiavona artwork

Any body have reference pics of the soldiers using schiavona, were they sword and buckler men?

Joe Pittman · Posted: Sun 30 Jan, 2011 7:07 pm Post subject: Help

Still cannot find any images of Schiavona in use or on a man at arms. Help if You Can

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Schiavona artwork

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 8:21 am Post subject:

Hello friends,

I'm presently finishing up a schiavona-armed Stradiot kit of the 16th century; you're welcome to consult my notes on it here:

http://www.ForensicFashion.com/1590StradiotCavalry.html

However, I haven't yet found an illustration from this period showing how a schiavona was carried. The only historical illustration I've seen comes from the mid-1700s -- a portrait of the Balkan Petar Zelaic shows a schiavona suspended from a heavy belt (see Elgood 2009 p59). This is of course much later than the age of Stradiots, and the context is naval rather than cavalry.

Joe Pittman · Posted: Thu 03 Feb, 2011 2:16 pm Post subject: Thanks

Ruel, I forgot about your Forensic Fashion work. Have bookmarked it for the future. I did find part of what I was looking for. Pappas online "snigle edged saber" Thanks

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 9:35 am Post subject:

Joe,

I've noticed something curious while putting these notes together. While writers always acknowledge two schiavona types -- one used ca.late 16th-17thc and the other later 17-18thc -- they don't seem to acknowledge two separate contexts of use; they generally just mention the first (as a cavalry sword for Dalmatian stradiots fighting for Venice against the Ottomans).

To me, it makes better sense to treat the two types of schiavona as related but different weapons, used in two different (but not necessarily exclusive) contexts: An earlier one limited to the Balkans and to light cavalry raiding, the later more broadly diffused across Europe and among cavalry, militias, and regular guard units. That's my impression at least...

Are you planning a kit of your own, based around a schiavona? If so, which type/context?

Joe Pittman · Posted: Fri 04 Feb, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: No Kit

But I am going to put a schiavona hilt on a saber blade. I thought that if Scots mercenaries came back with basket hilts on Polish and Hungarian saber blades, it was likely a schiavoni may have a schiavona hilted saber. So I was looking for historical precedent and of course images of any men at arms using or dressed with the schiavona. As far as a kit goes, there too many different aspects of a kit I want. It would be ultra modern compilation of thigh high boots and mithral ring mail. Big Grin

Joe Pittman · Posted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: Stradiot

Ruel , I found this, but no schivona. I have a Schivona saber for a kit something like this. I like the shield, to

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 6:55 am Post subject:

Hi Joe,

That first picture is from Nicolle & Rothero 1989, and is late 15thc -- too early, I think, for the schiavona.
http://www.forensicfashion.com/ReferencesInPrintEnglishN.html

The schiavona in the second picture looks modern. In truth, the only historical reference to a saber-bladed schiavona I'm aware of comes from central India c.1570 -- there's one illustrated in the Bijapur Nujum al-Ulum. That manuscript page is reproduced in Elgood 2004.
http://www.forensicfashion.com/ReferencesInPrintEnglishE.html

So, if you insist on a saber-schiavona, your most appropriate kit may not be European at all, but rather a Deccani Muslim of the same time period! Cool

Joe Pittman · Posted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 10:23 am Post subject: Kits

Indian Schiavona sounds interesting, will look for that image. Elgood 2004/ Hindu Arms and Armour. Decanni Muslim

Joe Pittman · Posted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject: Images

Ruel can(will) you post a pic of the Deccan with Shiavona? And I found this pic, listed as Stradiot Schiavona sword. Guard looks like The Windlass Ezio saber guard, and I had hoped for a connection there too. F

Joe Pittman · Posted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: Schiavona Guard And Pommel

I ment to give credit to Donald Dupuis for the guard and pommel. Donald said he made this nye on 20yrs ago. Anybody else thinking about schiavona 20yrs ago. Thanks Donald

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 5:54 am Post subject:

Joe,
Here's a quick shot of the Nujum al-'Ulum page in Elgood 2004, with the schiavona on the right.
There are several pages from this manuscript reproduced both in Elgood and in Hutton 2006.
http://www.forensicfashion.com/ReferencesInPrintEnglishH.html

Joe Pittman · Posted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: Stradiot

That is an interesting image, 2 of my sabers are there. Here is a stradiot listed as Greek or Albanian in the service of Venice. looks like pre Hungarian and Polish Hussar

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Tue 08 Mar, 2011 11:19 am Post subject: Re: No Kit

Joe Pittman · Posted: Wed 09 Mar, 2011 4:08 am Post subject: Schiavona

Apart from reading they were used by Doge Guardsman and became so popular that later heavy cav used them, I cannot find any in image from the Balkan- Ottoman wars or the Italian wars or on any military men.

Joe Pittman · Posted: Wed 09 Mar, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: Finally

last of a long list of Venetian military commanders. Guseppi Vscovich. Capitan of Preasto. Last Venetian stronghold to fall to Napolean

Samuel Bena · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Schiavona

Joe Pittman · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: Thanks

Thanks for responding. Yes, I am seeing the "no connection" between the Stradiot and the so called Schivona wielding Doge guard, probably were sword and shield infantry type. Still no pics of them or anybody using the famous Schivona. Good read.

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Mon 04 Apr, 2011 5:47 am Post subject: