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Danny Grigg
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 Posted: Tue 03 Oct, 2006 6:03 am Post subject: |
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Steve
Thanks for all the information.
Any plans on making more Hallstatt daggers / knives etc?
Have you made any other weapons in the past?
I'm sure someone like Nathan Bell will be interested in your replica. Nathan?
Here's a nice colour pic of a Hallstatt knife (I posted a B & W pic of it on the first page). Enjoy.
Danny
 Attachment: 94.31 KB
[ Download ]
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Steve L.
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu 05 Oct, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: possible Hallstatt dagger |
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I love this site and this is the type of thread that really excites me. Here I post a possible Hallstatt dagger for your comments and opinions.
Attachment: 45.33 KB
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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Steve L.
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| Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Any infos about dates and where it was found?
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Hallstatt dagger? |
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I bought this from a dealer who got it from a detectorist in Germany. Where exactly it was found in Germany I do not know. When these objects are removed from the location where they were found they obviously loose their context which is frustrating.
I see this weapon as coming from a transitional phase between the Hallstatt and La Tene periods. The tang is long. From the blade the tang narrows and then broadens in almost an hour glass shape (this shape of the tang I believe is reminiscent of some Hallstatt weapons) until it terminates with the horn like projections on each side similar to the longer projections seen in Hallstatt daggers.
At least that is what I see. My wife claims my iron sicas and Naue II swords look like rust lawn mower blades so beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.
I apologize that the image I provided is so big. The item is approximately 10 inches. Please excuse as this was my first post here.
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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Steve L.
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| Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Detectiorist are in my opinion "acheological terrorists", only a very little number works correct and report the finds to the covernment, the rest - a huge group - dig and sell the finds at ebay.
Your dagger don´t look hallstatt or latène, sorry! The shape of the tang, the pommel, the horns,....that´s not the common style of both periods. Looks like some middle age "Bauernwaffe" (note the shape of the tang, like an german "Messer").
I guess, it isn´t celtic! 
Last edited by Steve L. on Sat 07 Oct, 2006 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Steve L. wrote: | Detectiorist are in my opinion "acheological terrorists", only a very little number works correct and report the finds to the covernment, the rest - a huge group - dig and sell the finds at ebay. Bastards!
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Steve,
While I have sympathy for your feelings on this matter, the use of strong language and epithets is not appropriate on this forum.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Steve L.
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| Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: |
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Ok, sorry for that.
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: detectorists |
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Well, I can't say a blame you feeling that way about detectorists. I remember when I lived in Socking, a town near Starnberg, a thief made a muck of things at a newly discovered archeological site a few towns away.
However I was under the impression that the German government gave licenses to responsible detectorists when a public works project, such as a highway, was being constructed.
From the time I lived in Germany, long before eBay, I remember metal detecting as being a popular family hobby.
Also I am not aware of there being a 'treasure act ' in force in Germany of the kind that the English have. If I am wrong about this point please let me know.
One trys to deal with responsible dealers but the bottom line is one never knows where many of these things come from unless the provenance is thoroughly documented.
Look for example at what is going on in Bulgaria- that is a sad state of affairs indeed.
I certainly do not want to see archeological sites desecrated.
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Mon 27 Nov, 2006 4:56 pm Post subject: Urnfield period dagger |
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I thought I would contribute this image to the mix as the conversation so far it has not only covered Celtic knives and daggers but pre-Celtic as well. I especially liked the diagram someone included in a prior post concerning the evolution of daggers, knives and short swords of the culture-so in the spirit of that post I have included this piece.
This is an Urnfield dagger (A vollgriff dagger if you will) I purchased from Hermann Historica a few years ago. It is approximately 9 and 3/4 inches.
Attachment: 8.55 KB
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Urnfield period dagger |
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| James F. Connell wrote: | I thought I would contribute this image to the mix as the conversation so far it has not only covered Celtic knives and daggers but pre-Celtic as well. I especially liked the diagram someone included in a prior post concerning the evolution of daggers, knives and short swords of the culture-so in the spirit of that post I have included this piece.
This is an Urnfield dagger (A vollgriff dagger if you will) I purchased from Hermann Historica a few years ago. It is approximately 9 and 3/4 inches. |
Hey James...
Thanks so much for taking the time to post this beauty!
I would love to see some other shots to get an idea of what it looks like from he side and top. Also could you post data such as blade length, blade thickness, distal taper and weight... I know that is asking alot but it is very rare that someone actually owns one of these artifacts.
Thanks again
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Steve L.
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| Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
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That looks like the "customized" rest of an hard used "Vollgriffschwert" in an dagger. "Vollgriff"-dagger was very very very uncommon!!! But in fact some sword end as dagger! 
As example - a very nice "dagger", type Gündlingen:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/39/20...643435.jpg (pic to big as post)
A sharped-down or broken and refurbished sword - note the chape!
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: Urnfield dagger |
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| Steve L. wrote: | That looks like the "customized" rest of an hard used "Vollgriffschwert" in an dagger. "Vollgriff"-dagger was very very very uncommon!!! But in fact some sword end as dagger!
As example - a very nice "dagger", type Gündlingen:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/39/20...643435.jpg (pic to big as post)
A sharped-down or broken and refurbished sword - note the chape! |
Hi Steve:
I thought that might be a possibility when I saw it in the catalogue but when I finally got it and was able to examine it at home one can see the pair of very fine grooves on each side follow the edge of the blade and are not cut in the blade but are cast.
I will see if I can get some close ups posted in he next few days.
Best
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Urnfield period dagger |
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[quote="Kirk Lee Spencer"]
Hey James...
Thanks so much for taking the time to post this beauty!
I would love to see some other shots to get an idea of what it looks like from he side and top. Also could you post data such as blade length, blade thickness, distal taper and weight... I know that is asking alot but it is very rare that someone actually owns one of these artifacts.
Thanks again
Kirk:
Here are some specs:
The cross section is somewhat akin to "hollow ground"
The piece as a whole is nicely balanced
It has a good gradual taper
The blade length is 13.1 cm
The blade is thin, thinner than I have seen on any of my bronze age swords, and very slightly bowed.
I will have to go to my lab for a micrometer and a scale for actual blade width as well as weight.
Best
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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Steve L.
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| Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | the pair of very fine grooves on each side follow the edge of the blade and are not cut in the blade but are cast. |
Where´s the problem to re-hilt a broken sword point? I´ve never said, which half of the blade was refurbished! 
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James F. Connell
Location: South Shore, MA. USA Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: Urnfield dagger |
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| Steve L. wrote: | | Quote: | | the pair of very fine grooves on each side follow the edge of the blade and are not cut in the blade but are cast. |
Where´s the problem to re-hilt a broken sword point? I´ve never said, which half of the blade was refurbished! |
Well true enough except for the fact that the blade is so thin. I will send some more photos when I can and let you decide.
Best
Jim
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"a rare and ancient sword named Hrunting.
The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns
has been tempered in blood. It had never failed
the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle" - Beowulf
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Steve L.
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| Posted: Sat 10 Feb, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: Hallstatt folding knive |
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My reco of a hallstatt folding knive:
Handforged iron blade, bronze rivet, antler hilt (inside sealed with birchtar), heft in bone (glued with birchtar)
Length (folded-in):21,5cm
Length (ready-to-use): 28,5cm.
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Danny Grigg
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 18 Oct, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I was wondering if anyone has more information about the La Tene ring hilted knives of the type shown below. I'm particularly interested in where they are found, dates, sizes, and if there's any information about hilt wraps, how far the blades were polished from well presered examples etc. And naturally any more photos and/or drawings are very welcome
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Danny Grigg
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This is a