Two unidentified breastplates -- myArmoury.com

Arek Przybylok · Posted: Thu 25 Nov, 2010 2:27 pm Post subject: Two unidentified breastplates

Welcome
Looking for any information on these breastplate.
Dated, workshop, etc..

first:

second

Andrea Scattolin · Posted: Thu 25 Nov, 2010 5:34 pm Post subject:

It looks tome,as a GOTHIC typ,of breastplate,possibly,of the first half,of 15th century.
I amsure,many here,would know very much on this subject.
Regards

Andrea

Torsten F.H. Wilke · Posted: Thu 25 Nov, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject:

Unfortunately, I would not be the least bit surprised if those two examples were of Victorian era manufacture, and not period pieces. But then again, I am definitely no expert in the matter...

W Luth · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 1:14 am Post subject:

I definately don't know whether they are originals or not so I'm not commenting on that.

The 2nd breastplate looks similar to some 2nd half / 4th quarter (15th c) models i saw in a book i just picked up.
I'll look it up tonight but i remember seeing the close set fluting and wondering if it was a transitional model from fluted style to maximillian.

Lucas Simms · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 1:21 am Post subject:

The first one, if it's an original, could date from mid to late 15th century.
The second one is peculiar. Looks like an ugly hybrid of a mid 15th century and an early 16th century piece.

Blaz Berlec · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 7:31 am Post subject:

I've seen the first breasplate, but I have no idea where to look for it. I would say early German Gothic, 1460 - 1470, maybe even Italian export.

Second breastplate is late Kastenbrust era German, ca. 1450, Metropolitan Museum of Art. There's a very similar breastplate on statue of Emperor Friedrich III from 1453 in Wiener Neustadt, Imperial castle (by Jakob Kaschauer). Sorry, no picture on net.

W Luth · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject:

Ok, i looked up the pictures, there are 2 images in Stanislav Hrbaty's Platové Zbroje, items 40 and 41 that are quite similar to the style in the 2nd picture.

From what i understand of it (i dont speak Czech but google translator does, more or less) they are based on the 1480s but might be a product from the 19th century romantic movement. Crafted in / found in Nemecko (?)

Both items in the book can be found in the Johoceske muzeum v. Ceskych Budejovicich

Sorry, no scans tonight - have to get to bed before i drop, will post some once i get round to it.

Eric Hejdström · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 3:00 pm Post subject:

I think the first one is in "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" but since I don't have the book I can't check it up. Iv'e definately seen it before and I'd say german or maybe austrian ca 1480. But as Blaz pointed out it might just well be a bit earlier and italian export. Now this is going to annoy the hell out of me until I find the picture. And it's just recently too... there goes this night's sleep...

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject:

Does that second one look more like a backplate to anyone but me?

Blaz Berlec · Posted: Fri 26 Nov, 2010 11:51 pm Post subject:

Still haven't found anything on the first one, it doesn't seem to be in "The Knight and the Blast Furnace".

The second one is described in Claude Blair, European armour, page 93, and the photo of Emperor Friedrich III statue is on page 103.

The breastplate in the second photo (Metropolitan Museum) is from a Chalcis (or Xalcis) hoard, discovered in 1840 in Greece (castle was in Venetian hands until 1470, and most pieces from the hoard are from late 14th to mid 15th century).

Similar fluting is also seen on a waist lame for back plate and on pauldron in Royal armouries, Leeds (dated 1450 - 1460),

Emperor Friedrich III from 1453 in Wiener Neustadt, Imperial castle (by Jakob Kaschauer)
Photobucket image

Maybe it looks like a backplate to some because it's fluting resembles the fluting of Gothic era backplates (extending from the waist out). This direction of fluting was common during the Kastenbrust era breastplates, but usually they were not so dense and "maximillian-like". But it did exist, and not just in single example.

Berlin - Deutsches Historisches Museum, High Gothic era backplate:
Photobucket image

Tomasz Nowak · Posted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 12:50 am Post subject:

The first breastplate was offered at http://www.hermann-historica.com, as it seems.
I´ll check in the next few days, which auction it was and was the description is.

The second one is great btw.

Cheers,
Tomasz

Eric Hejdström · Posted: Sat 27 Nov, 2010 9:19 am Post subject:

I went through the Hermann-Historica auctions yesterday but didn't find it. That was my second guess as where I've seen it. The thing is that I saw it just a few weeks ago and I can't remember where...

Arek Przybylok · Posted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 2:28 am Post subject:

Thank you very much for your help.
As usual, like something is nice, it does not match my needs (second breastplate) Wink

James Anderson III · Posted: Tue 30 Nov, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject:

The first looks german, but I don't know a specific narrow timeframe to guess upon.

The second is definitely a breastplate. You can see the holes where the lance rest would have been. The lower fauld articulation seems fairly distinct; I think I've seen it's design once or twice in the last 15 years, but can't recall where.