[Jakab Mike]

Hey There! I'm new here so i don't have much experience,but i would like to ask you guys something. I've made my own chain mail hauberk and mail coif,and i 'm not that pleased with the result.I' ve seen the Kingdom of Heaven for like a hundred times or so and i've documented myself as good as i could from all sorts of pictures and medieval documentaries but still i can't make my hauberk look like the one Orlando Bloom's wearing in the movie.And i found out that for the chain mail they used like plastic opened rings,which they spray-painted but anyway,that's not the point.The point is that i'm looking for a way to make the gaps between the rings considerably smaller.This is already giving me a headache. Hope that somebody can help me with some suggestions.Thanks a lot and i'll upload a picture of my work and a picture with Orlando Bloom as the Baron of Ibelin so you can see the difference.Thanks again!

You can see the picture better here :

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=133...1174492232

[Gabriele A. Pini]

Hi and good stay in this forum!

I'm also a mailler and first of all I compliment to you for your work: a complete suit of mail (we prefer to not say "chain mail") is always a good work.

As for your question, you can see as the armour of Orlando Bloom is very loose, with a lot of unnecessary rings. It's cool, I don't say no, but this means a lot of more weight to carry on and a lot more "inertia" when you move. Also the PVC links used in the film work in a different way than the iron rings we used, they tend to not drag so much.

You can try to add more columns of links, or use smaller rings.

What type of rings do you used? Size, wire, material? Also what do you wear under it? If nothing else a gambeson can give you an hand...

[Jonathan Blair]

When I made my first (and only) hauberk, I used 3/8" (9mm) inside diameter rings. It made for a looser weave. I would recommend either 7mm or 8mm ID which would tighten your weav, but make for more rings needed to cover the same area. Flattening the rings would also tighten the weave.

[Romulus Stoica]

Hello to you. It seems that a lot more romanians on this forum, that's nice. I am also making maille armor and I suggest using smaller rings (1,6-1,8 mm wire rolled in 8 mm internal diameter rings looks good) or you can try making flattened rings but this is a lot of hard work. I have studied some original maille shirts from the museums in Transylvania and their rings are a flattened oval in section. I have tried both. But making a maille shirt with flattened rings will require more than double work hours than a shirt made from standard round section rings.

[Walter S]

I take Kingdom of Heaven more as an example of how mail *should not* look. Their mail behaves and looks more like textured carpet than real mail. Way too stiff and opaque.

[Sander Marechal]

Still, the KoH maille is a hundred times better than the silver painted knitted wool that is still used to pass off as maille.

[Dan Howard]

[Dan Howard]

Or this

[Eric S]

[Randall Moffett]

Not to my mind it is not. Chain armor is just as bad if not worse than chainmail.

Maille means a net. There is nothing chain-like about it besides having links. It looks much more like what one would relate to a net than a chain.

RPM

[Nathan Quarantillo]

I second Randall on that, maille is as similar to actual chains as a cuirass is to a flat sheet of steel.
Also, I feel it is more historically correct to call it maille, since that is what was used in period. I also would really HATE to have to find the (literally) hundreds of people I've been drilling to stop using that abomination "chain mail" and now inform them that the new chic term is "chain armour" (forgive my sarcasm )

Jakab, It has been mentioned that anything seen in movies can just be naturally assumed to be completely off. This statement is far more accurate than anything I've ever seen wielded or worn in a movie.
That said, if your bent on becoming a crusader, look up some period artwork, and check some of the kits and such worn by people. Others have done this before and will more than likely be glad to help.

In the short term, make some chausses & get a surcoat. put those on, and suddenly the coolness will be factored by 10!!!

[Elling Polden]

the use of the "chain" term is probably due to direct translations from German, where they have no "mail" word, and refer to "kettenhemd" or "kettenhaube", where the word "kette" can mean both "chain" and "link". Never the less, it is semantics. Languages develop, we know what you mean.

You actually have quite a good start, compared to many other DiY mail projects. It seems that your problem is that you are trying to make a copy that is better than the original...

If you are going for a late 12th c look, the coif is most commonly integrated in the hauberk, or worn under it. It does not need to have a large, circular neckpiece. You could also try to make a ventail; a triangular piece used to close the opening under the chin. (They have these in KoH...)
The hauberk is also typically knee or thigh length, but that is more a matter of work. It seems tightly fitted, which is good, except that it should be fitted over an arming tunic (cloth armour). However, if you get one now, the mail will not fit, so it would probably be best to leave that for "next time".
The most important thing is that you can move without the armour hindering your movement. With butted mail, there is also the problem of tight fitting mail pulling itself apart when stretched.

[Eric S]

[Randall Moffett]

OK but how many chains go side to side connections the entire way up and down. It stops being a chain at that point. Regardless you can hold whatever vocab you wish.

[Dan Howard]

The accepted academic term is "mail". You can call it whatever else you want but expect to be treated as a fanboy and not taken seriously. "Maille" is medieval French. Modern French uses the plural "mailles".

[Eric S]

[Dan Howard]

The Greeks used the word halusidoton which also means "chain" or "link". How is any of this relevant? We are writing in English not Japanese or Greek.

[Romulus Stoica]

Anyway, the topic was about how you can make a mail armor with smaller gaps between rings (links), so we better return on topic. There are any other methods except using smaller diameter rings or flattened rings? Using a 6 in 1 pattern will produce a more dense "fabric" but I don't believe this is historically correct if you refer to XII-XIII century mail.

[Sander Alsters]

I dont know if this fits the topic but, I have a question how I could better make the eyeholes in my coif. Can someone give me some advice?

http://ziej.hyves.nl/album/27937538/Vrienden/...file_Photo

It is hard to see but if you download the picture you can zoom in. The prob is I try to get nice round eyeholes, regardless what I've tried there always some link that falls not as I intended. Making the eyeholes with leather could do the trick but to hide the leather knot causes me a problem.

Thanks!

Sander.[/img]

[Sander Marechal]

Have you considered lining your coif with something? E.g. a linen backing?