[Brian K.]

Hello,

So I've got a spare moment, and I want to make myself a personal Arn scabbard for my Albion Arn sword. I'm tossing around the idea of just recreating the movie prop, but wondered if the scabbard should have a bit more too it. I'm split because of trying to remain true to the film, and my own personal instinct for wanting to compliment the sword itself.

Here is the link to Albion's version: http://filmswords.com/arn/arn-scabbard-suite.htm

The sword itself is a little more on the embellished side, with an engraved pommel, engraved guard, and engraved blade. The grip is a step above normal with multiple risers. The scabbard itself is on the simple side, and I'm wondering if perhaps their should be a little more tooling? I thought perhaps recreating the phrase on the guard on the central part of the scabbard running down the middle, below the suspension knot.

So I ask myself, does the scabbard itself properly compliment the blade? Is it too simple? Or just right?

What would you do?

[Zach Gordon]

Hi,
I am not saying this to be offensive, but it's just my opinion. If it's for sale I would, perhaps, question the morality of a direct copy. I would feel that since Albion made the original it would be more akin to a copy than original work. You would be just copying an already for sale item. I am not sure of the copyrights or intellectual property rights held by Albion and Arn... so a direct copy may be legal, but perhaps not ethical. In a business like this where everyone is kinda friends... I would be nervous coming off as immoral. Also if I wanted to buy an Arn scabbard I'd buy it from Albion.
If it's for yourself and you aren't going to sell it then I guess its ok... although I personally would still be nervous advertising it as an example of my own work.
But hey that's just my opinion
Z

[Jean Thibodeau]

Well Zach brings up an important point for discussion but for personal use I don't think there is a problem but you might one day decide to sell the sword and scabbard ?

Have you seen the actual movie scabbard ? Is it exactly the same as the Albion one that Albion sells or slightly different ? Movie props may different in subtle ways from the production model scabbard: if so copy the one seen on film if you can find a good pic of it. If it's close to identical to the one Albion offers then forget the above as irrelevant.

On the other hand I'm guessing you are really itching for an excuse to create your own design.

Any good excuse to make your ideas come to life rather than copying the movie scabbard.

Hmmmmmmm: Just a thought but in period a scabbard could get damaged and destroyed or worn out so maybe a richer/older Arn ( I assume he doesn't die at the end of the movie .... don't know the story ) could have a more ornate scabbard made for his sword or have a second scabbard for his sword.

Anyway, your own design sort of deals with ambiguous moral questions.

[Addison C. de Lisle]

I personally like the Arn scabbard, but I would also like to see what you come up with. The current offering is a touch on the plain side (probably intentionally to be appropriate to the character, but I don't know the story) - it would be pretty neat to see a more elaborate version with that tooling you love so much. Even something as simple as one or two straight lines down the length of the scabbard would really dress it up.

As for morality; if it's for your personal use I guess it's fine, but as Zach said, I would not advertise it on your site because I feel like it would be treading on some toes - plus it would probably be a copyright issue.

Anyway, designing a project is half the fun!

[Jean Thibodeau]

Well if you absolutely want the Arm scabbard as seen in the movie you could buy one from Albion and make your own personal interpretation for yourself ( different design not copied from the Albion design ).

On the other hand as a talented maker of scabbards it would feel odd to buy one from someone else, normally, but if it's to have the full Albion made package then maybe this is something to consider ?

[JE Sarge]

I'd recreate the one from the movies - keep it simple and elegant.

Many people do movie inspired pieces, I see no ethical problem at all if you are keeping it for yourself and not offering it as production for same. If you were going to offer it as a production design, then there might be an issue. In that case, I would just do my own version of the Arn scabbard.

Keep us posted!

[Brian K.]

Boy o' boy, a can o' worms did I open. All good points, so thank you for the input. It is for my own personal collection, but you never know when the time comes that you need or want to sell. I've already made a couple of Arn scabbard's with my own touch for customers. They were representative of the movie version, but the chapes were different along with the tooled cross. Last but not least, the suspension had subtle differences that if you set them side by side it would be very obvious. As a whole, the scabbards are different enough to know better, but representative enough to feel like you owned something close.

The fact of the matter is, I get asked to recreate movie props all the time. Most of the time, all I have to go by is a lousy picture. I don't have any actual movie props to base my version on, so for the most part, it's based on my interpretation and not an exact copy. Most of the offers I turn down, for various reasons, but the requests are why I feel compelled to recreate the Arn scabbard for my own collection purposes. We all here collect, for various reasons, and most collectors want the item(s) to match what made them famous.

Ultimately, I have my own ideas of what I'd like to do. I started this thread because I'm not all business, as I like to think I can blend with the community as I feel more a part of that, than a business. It's still a hobby to me. I'm often having to watch what I post, for fear of repercussion, and in fact I pondered this thread before I started it but thought what the heck. I like to talk casual like the rest of you, and sometimes it's hard being a member of a forum with a business title.

I think I'll come up with something else, and call it, my own.

[Marko J.]

I would base the scabbard on the original one, but improve it a bit. You are very good at tooling, so you should add some to it, perhaps with religious motives. And also a nicer chape. The original one is so basic... Such a sword deserves a scabbard with these features.

[Thomas R.]

I think this plain and functional scabbard is perfectly suited to accompany a knight templar to outremer. As far as I know the rule of the templar forbid any ornamentation or decoration on their equipement. I think, I do recall, that even so called tassel-fibulae were not allowed at their cloaks.

So make a soldiers scabbard and not a noblemans.

Thomas

[Brian K.]

Here is what I've got so far. My primary difference is going to be a central concave groove or 'fuller' running down 3/4 of the length starting from the suspension knot below the belt, toward the tip. This groove will be similar to the fuller on the sword.

Progress so far -

[Brian K.]

New progress

[Nathan Robinson]

Brian, there's a lot to say but I'll only mention this:

You, sir, are very quick at your craft.

Cheers.

[Keith L. Rogers]

I have nothing to say on this Arn scabbard but can say, being local to Brian with three of his scabbards, that after a period of thinking about a design, he makes it happen FAST. I think he waits for his chapes, made by another person of skill, as much as anything.

Now if only his wait list were as short as his work when knife goes to leather...

-klr

[Brian K.]

When I said I have a spare moment, I wasn't kidding

The most time consuming part of scabbard making is the design, tooling, coloring and finish. Though it may seem fast, there is still quite a bit of time logged into this one. It's just that when you've done it a lot, certain aspects get cranked out quite quickly.

[Brian K.]

Finished

[Nathan Robinson]

That's stunning. I hadn't really looked at the Arn Sword before, to be honest, but seeing it all dressed up makes it shine. That's a hell of a kit. Well done.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Nice work as usual.

[Ron Reimer]

Beautiful work , I doff my hat to you.
Since the ARN scabard seems to be a copy of a design correct to the period portrayed I don't think any could really claim exclusivity on it.
Again an absolutely beautiful piece of work!!!