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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Maciejowski Bible "chopper"         Reply with quote

This is my first sword-length blade. Made as a "get well" present for my friend, colleague & WMA training partner, and all around badass, Carlo Arellano. It's been sitting around in a mostly finished state for awhile. I don't fully like how the handle came out, so i've been dragging my feet about finishing it. If/when I do another of these, I won't do the offset tang thing again.

Hand forged 1084 (Aldo's) steel, with incised narrow fuller.
Forge welded & patinated wrought iron bolster (had to forge weld two slabs of wrought together to get a thick enough piece).
Maple handle, with copper inlay.

Blade length: 24 1/4"
OAL: 31 3/4"







Inspiration:




Thanks for looking,
Dustin

Edit: I'd like to reiterate that i'm just a hobbyist maker, this piece isn't for sale.


Last edited by Dustin R. Reagan on Fri 10 Sep, 2010 4:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil Gagel




Location: Oklahoma City
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
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Posts: 55

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's pretty stinkin' awesome work. I've checked out the Maciejowski choppers made by Del Tin before and always found them fascinating, but this looks to be a step above that. Good job!
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Tristán Zukowski




Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Joined: 29 Oct 2009

Posts: 41

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice work!
Tristan P. Zukowski
Longsword (KdF) Instructor, New York Historical Fencing Association
Longsword (KdF) Instructor, Sword Class NYC
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 10 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Dustin,

another great work of you. These falchions are really, really bad-ass weapons. I find, that one cannot figure it's real might just from looking at the mac pictures. Some people even say, they are made up weapons, or mistaken sarazean-sabers... But if you for only once handle one of them yourself, you'll get the idea, what they were meant to do.

I own one of these with an umbrella shaped handle, made by Jiri Krondak (fabri-armori). They are two handed weapons, as you need two hands to fully use them at your advantage. First you hack at the maille with the spikes to crush the riveting, then you turn the blade and slash. Well, at least, that's my guess at using them. Those with the umbrella handle allow for a very quick turn of the blade in your hand, if you pull the handles end, with your left hand. Too bad, they are much too dangerous to use them in shows or free sparring.

Regards,
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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T. Cronch





Joined: 06 Nov 2006

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
First you hack at the maille with the spikes to crush the riveting, then you turn the blade and slash. Well, at least, that's my guess at using them. Those with the umbrella handle allow for a very quick turn of the blade in your hand, if you pull the handles end, with your left hand. Too bad, they are much too dangerous to use them in shows or free sparring.


Firstly, these blades are completely safe for use in shows and/or free sparring IF you are an accomplished enough swordsman. Very few are.

Secondly, you are incorrect about the usage of the spikes. The sword is meant to be held only with the flat-facing blade portion forward. The spikes are used to hook an opponent under the jaw (or helmet face plate) and pull them toward you, bringing them into the optimum kill zone for a 'chopper' such as this.

I have also used one of these on a wounded sow to great effect.

This is indeed a nice example, however, it lacks sufficient blood grooving to be truly period-accurate.
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 10 May 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi T. Cronch,

thanks for your expertise, but nevertheless I am sure, you can use it the way I described. And in my opinion these weapons are too dangerous for safe show-combat as most fighters are not familiar with them. If you see yourself fit to do so, well, do so and have fun. Happy

Best regards,
Thomas

http://maerenundlobebaeren.tumblr.com/
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Adam Smith





Joined: 01 Jan 2009

Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice work, can I ask what quenching medium you use for 1085. I especially like the incision, not neccesary but adds a great touch and is very straight The choppers in the mac bible have similar fullers, I would disregard one of the earlier posts about inaccuracy.
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Adam Smith wrote:
Very nice work, can I ask what quenching medium you use for 1085. I especially like the incision, not neccesary but adds a great touch and is very straight The choppers in the mac bible have similar fullers, I would disregard one of the earlier posts about inaccuracy.


Thanks! I used McMaster-Carr's fast quench oil. I did an interrupted quench, where I attempt to get it out of the quench at right around 600-500 deg F. This gets you past the pearlite nose of the steel, but at that point the martensitic transformation hasn't yet begun. So, the blade is still quite plastic, and you can adjust any warpage that may have occured during the quench (at least until the blade begins to "set up", or transform to martensite).
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Sep, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thomas R. wrote:
Hi T. Cronch,

thanks for your expertise, but nevertheless I am sure, you can use it the way I described. And in my opinion these weapons are too dangerous for safe show-combat as most fighters are not familiar with them. If you see yourself fit to do so, well, do so and have fun. Happy

Best regards,
Thomas


I'm reasonably sure that no one knows how the back spikes where used but we certainly can imagine a lot of nasty things they could do or tactical things also in hooking or deflecting blades, polearm hafts or shields.

My totally unproved theory is that those back spikes or points make the blade able to act like a single flanged mace: At least my Del Tin version of one inspires that idea.

Anything we can imagine that is tactically sound or that the design could do seems valid to me at least as speculation but there are no historical texts covering the use of these from the period they where made I'm fairly sure !

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Ron Reimer




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Aug 2010

Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sat 11 Sep, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi a former member of the group I'm in made a copy of the godenak that was combat safe and we found it to be very effective in dealing with polearms.The tines let you "grip" the shaft and drive it down or sideways and close in to chop.
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Thomas R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 10 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep, 2010 2:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ron Reimer wrote:
Hi a former member of the group I'm in made a copy of the godenak that was combat safe and we found it to be very effective in dealing with polearms.The tines let you "grip" the shaft and drive it down or sideways and close in to chop.


Hi Ron,
that sounds quite reasonable! Too bad, Jiri made me a too spiky one for using it in close combat, but I will test your way on a pole arm. Lately I've seen a polearm axeblade with two very pointy blades together (but I don't rember where...). The accompanying text said, it was used for ripping through maille. And it's shape resembled roughly one of the chopper blades (no. 8) in Dustins first posting. I'll have a look, if I can find it again.

Regards,
Thomas

Edit: It was on the merctailor site: http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php?original_pk=4 Well, it's indian and much later, but I found the shape and use interesting.

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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Sun 12 Sep, 2010 12:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm, a lot of conjecture about the purpose of these "scallops"...

After making one of these, i feel that the primary purpose of these scallops is simply to adjust the dynamics of the weapon itself. That is, it is a very simple way to quickly adjust the balance and feel of the blade. After all, these aren't swords, with a well thought out balance between blade profile taper, distal taper and hilt/pommel. In my view, these are quick to produce, yet effective weapons of war. Nearly any smith could have churned these out in times of war and probably even hilt them quickly himself (no cross guard or pommel to carefully adjust and fit means hilting these should take a fraction of the time). The fact that these scallops may serve another purpose is just icing on the cake. Again, this is just my opinion, but it is quite amazing how taking just several ounces of weight from the distal end of a blade can have a profound and easily felt impact on blade dynamics...
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