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Neil Eddiford





Joined: 17 May 2008
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Aug, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Cutting an arrow         Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOjL_C1A5NQ

Came across this on utube, what do we think?
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Marc Blaydoe




Location: Maryland
Joined: 29 Sep 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

With a weak draw and large fletches to create drag to slow the arrow down enough, it certainly is possible. I wouldn't try it against someone who was actually trying to hurt me with an arrow however.
An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
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Timo Nieminen




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PostPosted: Tue 31 Aug, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's a "traditional" Japanese martial arts stunt. There are historical accounts of it being done in battles, too.

The Japanese military bow was not a fast bow. Could be heavy draw weight, but also heavy limbed, and they shot heavy arrows. The goal was short-range anti-armour performance. Slow arrows, so it could be done.

For a realistic (slow) bow, (slow heavy) arrow, and range, I think that the arrow-cutter needs to anticipate the shooting, and start moving when he sees that the archer will release. And anticipate the trajectory, too. Easier to do as a stunt, with the archer aiming at a particular known-in-advance point (which doesn't have to actually be on the body of the cutter).

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Aug, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have been shot at plenty of times with a blunt arrow at 25yds with a 60-80lb bow and you can quite easily step aside, so striking with a sword I think with a little practice is possible.

What I found very interesting is that when 2 archers shoot at you, you lose all ability to track the arrows and so you either get hit, hit the deck or freeze like a rabbit (usual response) and pray.

Tod

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Michael MacLeod




Location: Regina
Joined: 15 Jul 2007

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PostPosted: Tue 31 Aug, 2010 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This video is from a nice documentary on the katana showing a master cut an arrow shot straight at him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-PgkNst5qY&feature=related.
While possible cutting an arrow in half is something that I would not count on and would take a very well practiced or lucky individual to perform. Lifting a nice shield or dropping to the ground are better idea in my opinion.
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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael MacLeod wrote:
This video is from a nice documentary on the katana showing a master cut an arrow shot straight at him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-PgkNst5qY&feature=related.
While possible cutting an arrow in half is something that I would not count on and would take a very well practiced or lucky individual to perform. Lifting a nice shield or dropping to the ground are better idea in my opinion.


A nice leather jacket will probably already do the trick in this case.....Happy
I don't want to step on any toes, but to me this is an other example of a crap video glorifying the Japanese sword and fighting style.
First: the bow the girl is using cannot be very strong. You can not hold a heavy bow drawn for so long. I have been training with a 90 pound (at 36 inch) Manchurian (Chinese) bow. This weight is one of the lightest classes they had. You can only draw, aim and release it. Most girls can't even draw my 40 pound Mongolian.
Second: she is not drawing full length. The Japanese bow in Kyudo is drawn well past the ear. Also, she is drawing the bow by holding the arrow and not the string. In Kyudo (and the whole far east) the bow is drawn with the thumb (by the string). For me an other indication that this is not a very strong bow...Wink You also can't see who shoots the two arrows going through the board.
This must be staged.
If an arrow is going fast enough you are also able to cut it in half with a sword that is less sharp.

An other thing I have to get off my chest, is that I have become a bit allergic to the whole: 'Japanese swords and fighting are the best ever' bullshit. I have practiced karate (Kyokushinkai) and KungFu (jeet kune do). It works...sure. It's cool....sure. But they are not superior to any other fighting style. It all depends on the skill of the one who is practicing it.
This is a very long way to say that I almost threw up my lunch when they were talking about that the Japanese sword is the finest sword ever made......I will not go in to this any further.....Happy
To me this video proves nothing. Only that people invest a lot of money to sell bullshit.

As for the first vid. I have seen arrows shot by a longbow, you could almost catch up with walking (ok, not....and also not almost, but they were very slow). You could see the complete and detailed arrow in flight. A composite bow is a lot faster. An arrow leaving my 90 pound Chinese bow can only be seen as a red flash (I painted my arrow-shafts red...Happy..). I really wonder if both guys could do the same thing when I'm shooting at them. And I will use full draw......the whole 36 inches....Happy I would not voluntarily want to be on the receiving end of one of those......sharp sword or not
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Sep, 2010 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Visser wrote:
I have been training with a 90 pound (at 36 inch) Manchurian (Chinese) bow. This weight is one of the lightest classes they had.

...

As for the first vid. I have seen arrows shot by a longbow, you could almost catch up with walking (ok, not....and also not almost, but they were very slow). You could see the complete and detailed arrow in flight. A composite bow is a lot faster. An arrow leaving my 90 pound Chinese bow can only be seen as a red flash (I painted my arrow-shafts red...:)..). I really wonder if both guys could do the same thing when I'm shooting at them. And I will use full draw......the whole 36 inches....:) I would not voluntarily want to be on the receiving end of one of those......sharp sword or not


That's not much below average draw weight for a Manchu military bow. How heavy are your arrows? I have about 100g as typical for a Manchu war arrow.

A modern fibreglass bow is likely to have lighter limbs than a traditional bow, so will shoot faster. Japanese military bows (as opposed to even early-Edo sporting archery bows) were even heavier-limbed, and used even heavier arrows, so will shoot slower - when you're shooting at armoured targets at 15m, the demands on energy and momentum are greater than demands on arrow speed. Japan: home of arrow-cutting, home of the lowest-velocity military archery - coincidence, or not?

The classic story is Tajima the Arrow-Cutter, but he did (supposedly) dodge all the arrows he could, only deflecting them with his naginata when he couldn't dodge. His armour probably looked like a pincushion when finished, too. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gochin_no_Tajima

"Cutting" is also not really the point of the original exercise - deflection is. Cutting, per se, is a parlour trick.

"In addition to being efficient, all pole arms were quite nice to look at." - Cherney Berg, A hideous history of weapons, Collier 1963.
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A Visser




Location: Amsterdam
Joined: 22 Jun 2009

Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri 03 Sep, 2010 2:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Timo Nieminen wrote:
That's not much below average draw weight for a Manchu military bow. How heavy are your arrows? I have about 100g as typical for a Manchu war arrow.


Well Timo...to be honest...I really don't know....Happy
Since it has proved to be somewhat difficult to obtain shafts longer than 34" I have started at an early stage to make my own bamboo shafts. I just went to a garden center, and bought a bundle of bamboo sticks. I had to find out how to straighten them (there is a lot of info on the internet about this), but after that (and that takes a bit of work) it's just trial an error. I now know exactly how a shaft should feel and how stiff it should be to be suitable for my bow. A big advantage of bamboo is that it's a lot stronger than whatever other wood. My arrows almost never break. And in this way...they are also cheaper. Ok...there is more work involved...
One sure way to completely destroy a bamboo arrow is, when you are using a wooden self-nock (so nu glue-on nocks), to shoot as we call it a perfect Robin Hood. I make my nocks out of buffalo horn and glue them on. I have destroyed a few in this way....Happy
But you are still able to reuse your arrow. Making a nock only cost me about 10 to 15 minutes. an arrow shaft takes a lot longer...
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