[Brawn Barber]

Having made so many of them, I never really thought about it. I apologize in advance if the question has been addressed before, but is there any historical evidence of the Kidney belt being employed as piece of functional armour?

[Scott Hrouda]

Nothing in my (admittedly limited) experience and readings leads me to think the kidney belt has historical precedence as a functional piece of armour. Please keep in mind there are many others here who have much more knowledge on the subject than I do.

While looking at your web site, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that you supplied some of the "armour" for the St. Paul, MN Winter Carnival "Fire King Rex and his Vulcan Krewe". If you've never seen these guys in action, they get away with stuff during the carnival that is illegal in most states!

[Brawn Barber]

It's been cast about in the armouring world numerous times about Vikings and Kidney belts so I was hoping there was something there, but in the cursory research I've done I can't find anything.

Minnesota must be wonderful. I should be living there, but you've got to work with the cards you're dealt, I guess.

[Chuck Russell]

i know of no such creature other than the early Greek type bronze belt and the late roman wide belt

[JE Sarge]

Somewhere in the Archaeology of Weapons; Oakeshott described a very wide Migration Period leather war belt worn on the exterior over padding & armor. It was re-enforced with metal strips and had hanging rings to mount weapons to.

Also, the Romanians still use a type of kidney belt called a chamir worn over a padded gambeson that was derived from Roman and Dacian precursors. The belt is hardened leather, re-enforced with metal studs:



At any rate, these appear to be very early examples to do more in the way of disbursing weight or offering support than for actual protection - as nothing I have seen extends up to protect the actual kidney region. I don't know about functional, but it was figured out by some cultures that they worked for something.

Both of these have been discussed here before. I'd try to get the links up later!

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

That belt that Sarge posted; I want it!
I guess it's kind of like the question "Did pourpoints exist in the 11th-13thC.?", we can't know for sure, but if it seems feasible to a degree then it should be alright. If taken with a pinch of salt.

[Romulus Stoica]

That belt is called "chimir" (spelled like - kimir, in romanian "chi" sounds like "ki"). It is still worn by men in the mountain villages and you could still buy it at the rural fairs, especially at cattle fairs. It's 2 or 3 layers of hardened leather, with or without metal studs and often with decorative stitches and models molded in the hardened leather. It was used from ancient times and in many ballads is described as a form of armor, every hero wears it ... It is strong enough to protect against slashing and cutting blows. It will surely stop a knife or a dagger and even a light sword I believe.
The flap you see on the side, is a pocket on the inside of the chimir, for small valuable tings like keys or money. Both my grandfathers still wore a chimir and one my uncles did wear it sometimes.

[Scott Hrouda]

[Brawn Barber]

Well, a lot of great input here however I guess the question as to whether it was ever an actual piece of armour is still up in the air.

[JE Sarge]

I am digging for the links, but I have seen really wide belts being worn over armor in 13th or 14th century European art before. I just have to find out where because I do not readily recall. I will keep looking...

[Michael Ekelmann]

In Peter Connolly's Greece and Rome At War there are pictures of some armour from the early Roman period, before the entire Italian pennisula was under Roman control. The Samnites wore armour that had a wide bronze belt to cover what the bronze pectoral left exposed. Osprey's The Scythians has some illustrations of bronze lammellar girdles worn as an element of a full lammellar kit. It's an Angus McBride illustraion, so YMMV.