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Sander Marechal
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 Posted: Thu 06 May, 2010 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Shackleton wrote: |
I'd love to hear back about your results when you are done! |
Well, it's going to be a few weeks before I can start building these. Yesterday I went back to the doctor because the swelling in my finger wasn't decreasing. Half an hour later they had taken two x-rays and I was covered in plaster. Turns out that my finger was broken after all. They were surprised I had been running around with it for nearly two weeks without too much trouble.
Is it me or do doctors seem hesitant to x-ray these days? If they had taken x-rays when I was in the hospital two weeks ago after it happened they would have seen the fracture immediately. The same thing happened to a couple of other people I know. One broken wrist and one broken shoulder, all diagnosed a few weeks after the fact.
Oh well, that's probably too much off-topic for here. Back to gauntlets. I would still like some more suggestions for the cuff shape.
Also, does anyone know of sewing patterns for mitten gloves that have a separate index finger?
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Bram Verbeek
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| Posted: Fri 07 May, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Just after an accident it is often very hard to see a fracture according to my sister, later on it is a lot easier. Though I think there are differing views in differing hospitals, I had an x-ray when I said that it probably wasn't necessary (and it wasn't), but the doctors wanted to be sure.
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Felix R.
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| Posted: Fri 07 May, 2010 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Maybe it also depends wether you hurt your fingers or your vertebrae.
Back to the gauntlet topic. The amount of protection also differs, wether you scholl advocates hand cuts or not, in the latter case nearly all gauntlets are just a compromise.
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Fri 07 May, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I for one think that if you're able, you should point them onto your hauberk.
I think I've seen pictures from the Manesse Codex where they appear to wear maille 'gauntlets' separately and even on their own.
I'd say using so much padding, and then 'hardened leather' and then thick maille sounds cumbersome. Maybe a pair of Wisby-esk munitions grade gauntlets could be worn under the maille?
Anyway 6-in-1 mitts on a 4-in-1 hauberk, sounds good to me  [/i]
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Sat 08 May, 2010 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| Sam Gordon Campbell wrote: | | I think I've seen pictures from the Manesse Codex where they appear to wear maille 'gauntlets' separately and even on their own. |
Do you happen to know which images? I've browsed through the first 300 pages of this facsimile but I haven't seen separate mail gauntlets yet.
Or, instead if someone knows of a gallery that just shows the images from the Manesse Codex and not the text, that would be helpful too.
| Quote: | | The amount of protection also differs, wether you scholl advocates hand cuts or not |
We do learn hand cuts, but IIRC they are not allowed during free play, just like thrusts to the face are not allowed.
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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| Posted: Sat 08 May, 2010 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Here Marechal, hope this helps...
 Attachment: 127.51 KB
Notice the figure on the left... [ Download ]
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Timo Nieminen
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| Posted: Sat 08 May, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| K J Seago wrote: | on a slight tangeant, anyone know of anyone who does three finger (or 2 finger 1 thumb) mittens?
been thinking about making some and can't find much, they look like they'd be quite good protection for someone out of the heavy armours. |
I see that Steel Mastery has 3 finger (=2 + 1 thumb) padded mitts. These might even be OK as is for some purposes, or otherwise as a base for further building on. They look like they might be good for fit-anybody loaner gear, but that has a flipside as far as good fit goes.
When I was doing SCA fighting actively, one fellow had (2+1) finger steel gauntlets. "Sontaran gauntlets", we called them. Looked like a reasonable compromise between mitten and finger gauntlets.
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Sun 09 May, 2010 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| Sam Gordon Campbell wrote: | | Here Marechal, hope this helps... |
That helps a lot, thanks! It has given me some good ideas on the shape of the cuff. Looking at that image, I think my cuffs are going to be about 3-4" long from the writs bones and slightly flared, fitting over my gambeson sleeve. I also think I'll leave the last 1" of the maille covering unattached. That was I can lace it to (or over) my hauberk sleeve.
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Allen Foster
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| Posted: Sun 09 May, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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I've broken both little fingers on each hand in the same place (between the big and middle knuckle). Both times the sword hit perpendicular to the bone and snapped it like a twig. Both cases (once with a wooden waster and once with steel) I was wearing heavily padded hockey gloves which did not disperse the power of the blow. Both times I was out of action for three months and had to start my conditioning all over again. Recently, we were sparring with Albion Meyers and while wrestling at the bind the hook on my opponents ricosso went through the half inch padding of my glove puncturing my right index finger to the bone. Ouch!
I really need to something that provides a hard barrier between my fingers and the sword and I'm not sure that maile will disburse the impact of the blow to keep from having the same break again. I am also not sure that maile would prevent the puncture wound that I experienced. So that leaves me thinking I need gloves with plates that also protect the creases at the joints because the sword edge has a way finding its way between the joint creases. What I'm describing are plate gauntlets which is a discussion for another thread but also not practical for my purposes.
Many purist in Western martial arts will contend that what I'm looking for will make me sloppy and I will develop bad habits due the fact I won't know when I'm making mistakes because I won't feel the pain. On the flip side of that coin is if you make one mistake, your out of commission for three months while the bone heals.
There are so many trade offs with regard to gauntlets. Protection at the price of Dexterity or Dexterity at the price of Protection all at the risk of developing bad habits or not. It's been very frustrating.
I wish one of our manufacturers would develop a serious glove or gauntlet for just Western Martial Arts. One that provides protection while not sacrificing dexterity. If I had a glove that covered those two things I think I could deal with problem of developing bad habits.
Rant over. Sorry
"Rise up, O Lord, and may thy enemies be dispersed and those who hate thee be driven from thy face."
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Mon 10 May, 2010 6:09 am Post subject: |
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| Allen Foster wrote: | | I really need to something that provides a hard barrier between my fingers and the sword and I'm not sure that maile will disburse the impact of the blow to keep from having the same break again. I am also not sure that maile would prevent the puncture wound that I experienced. |
That's what I thought as well, but 6-in-1 maille is pretty dense and does distribute force quite well. Not as well as steel plate of course, which is why I will be using 2-3mm hardened leather underneath the maille.
I suggest you build a small section of 6-in-1 maille yourself and play with it a bit. You may be surprised how well it works. I was!
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Sander Marechal
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jun, 2010 1:41 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'm out of the plaster cast and I am starting to regain some movement back in my finger. My physical therapist recommended that I get back to sword fighting as soon as possible. she thought that it's a great way to build up strength in my fingers again.
Ayway, back to the gauntlets. I would like to do some testing before I start building them. Ideally I am looking for some material that has about the same strength as the bones in the fingers and hands. Something I can cover with padding, leather and mail and whack with a sword so I can see how well they disperse the force from a cut.
Does anyone have any suggestions for such a material? Or suggestions on other ways on how I can test this? I thought about getting some lambsrack or T-bone steak from the butcher and using the bones, but I think that dead bone reacts very differently from living bone.
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Johann M
Location: London Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jun, 2010 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| Sander Marechal wrote: | | ...Does anyone have any suggestions for such a material? Or suggestions on other ways on how I can test this? I thought about getting some lambsrack or T-bone steak from the butcher and using the bones, but I think that dead bone reacts very differently from living bone. |
Pig is often used as a human analog in experiments, so I would recommend "trotters" (legs) for this use. Yes "dead" bone does act different, but the fresher the better. Also for a vegan option pine reportedly breaks under the same pressure as live bone...but I can't verify this.
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This is a standard topic