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Boris R.
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Kjell Magnusson
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 Posted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm having a hard time seeing how deep exactly that one is due to the photo angles, but there is one sallet in the Royal Armoury in Stockholm which also goes pretty far down the face.
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Hugh Knight
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| Posted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I can't make out the pictures you posted very well, but if I understand what you're saying, the visor extends down so that no bevor is required, correct?
If so, there is a picture of a sallet like that in Boardman, A., The Medieval Soldier in the Wars of the Roses, Sutton Publishing, 1998, p. 35. The visor extend down well blow the wearer's chin, and is shaped to cup the chin to an extent. The caption says that the helmet is from St. Michael's Church, Caerhays (in Cornwall), and is supposed to have belonged to a man who fought for Henry Tudor at Bosworth in 1485. Unfortunately, I've never found a copy of this picture on the web.
Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Boris R.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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A longer visor might certainly make a bevor less essential but even a deep one would leave the neck exposed !
A gorget or a maille high collared standard might in this case replace a bevor and be preferred as a bevor can be uncomfortable as far as getting air to breathe is concerned.
A short visor might just go as low as the bottom of the nose and a longer one the mouth but leave the chin exposed.
Funny how exposed and vulnerable that chin seems compared to when one is wearing an open face sallet or any other helm that leaves the face fully exposed ! Mostly, I think because one might forget about one's expose chin more than one's full face being exposed i.e. a false sense of safety by forgetting about the chin or in reverse an enhanced fear for one's exposed chin !
With a sallet with a longer/deeper visor I would think that one could choose a bevor protecting the neck and chin but stop at mouth level and get the same protection as a narrow visor and a high bevor ?
Ideally one should have a sallet and bevor optimized to work well together.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hugh Knight
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| Posted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| Boris R. wrote: | @Hugh Knight - so this helmet's visor lower part extended and curved inward as to protect the chin, as in maybe milanese Bellows visor Sallet? http://www.ageofarmour.com/instock/bellows2.jpg
and do you happen to know from where could this book be ordered? |
It's somewhat different from that seen on the bellows visor. It looks like a regular sallet visor down as far as most such visors go, then it flares out slightly (about on line with the hem of the skirt), and then cups back in to go under the chin.
I got my copy of the book from either Amazon.com or from the David Brown Book Company, I forget which.
Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Asger Kjærgaard
Location: Odense, Denmark Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
I found this and thought this would be the right place to post it:
http://www.aplaisance.co.uk/15th-Century-Armo...llet_2.JPG
As you can see it claims to be a reproduction of a sallet from Bosworth - is this the sallet you mention Hugh? and if not. have you or anyone seen this as an original?
regards
Asger
Asger Kjærgaard
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Hugh Knight
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| Posted: Wed 11 Nov, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Asger Kjærgaard wrote: | Hi
I found this and thought this would be the right place to post it:
http://www.aplaisance.co.uk/15th-Century-Armo...llet_2.JPG
As you can see it claims to be a reproduction of a sallet from Bosworth - is this the sallet you mention Hugh? and if not. have you or anyone seen this as an original? |
That appears to be a copy of the one I cited, yes.
Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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Boris R.
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| Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Hello everybody, recently i found out about THIS helmet located @ the Met Museum in NYC
it is of course an italian (prob Milanese piece) but what i like about it is a lack of so-called bellows on the visor.
There is a french company making a very nice repro of the piece, but i dont want to be banned so PM me if you want a link 
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Boris R.
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| Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| Hugh Knight wrote: | | Asger Kjærgaard wrote: | Hi
I found this and thought this would be the right place to post it:
http://www.aplaisance.co.uk/15th-Century-Armo...llet_2.JPG
As you can see it claims to be a reproduction of a sallet from Bosworth - is this the sallet you mention Hugh? and if not. have you or anyone seen this as an original? |
That appears to be a copy of the one I cited, yes. |
@Hugh - perhaps THIS ONE ?
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Hugh Knight
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Boris R. wrote: | | There is a french company making a very nice repro of the piece, but i dont want to be banned so PM me if you want a link |
Why in the world would you be banned for posting a link? As long as you aren't a maker spamming this site, there are no rules that prohibit a poster posting of links to makers' wares. Please review our rules rather than making unfounded statements.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Boris R.
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| Posted: Sat 14 Nov, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Chad Arnow wrote: | | Boris R. wrote: | | There is a french company making a very nice repro of the piece, but i dont want to be banned so PM me if you want a link |
Why in the world would you be banned for posting a link? As long as you aren't a maker spamming this site, there are no rules that prohibit a poster posting of links to makers' wares. Please review our rules rather than making unfounded statements. |
It is true i did not find a time to read the forum rules, but it was surely not a statement in any way, rather just an assumption
So now that's settled here's the link ->
http://jmebert.free.fr/Heaume_n5.htm
please scroll down, it is the very last one
on the first glance a notable difference is seen on the breathing holes
(on the reproduction piece they are just lined in an X shape while on the original helmet they look sorta like confederate flag  )
there is also a nice non-existant visored barbuta to be found on the same page (i am just a sucker for those pretty visored helmets :P )
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Mark T
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| Posted: Mon 15 Mar, 2010 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: A Sallet with somewhat longer visier |
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Apologies for slight threadromancy, but to come back to the op's question and consolidate relevant research here:
| Boris R. wrote: | | now I know that sallet usually comes with a bevor and that rendered the longer visier unprobable, but i'm intrigued if anyway this type of sallet ever existed, historically? |
Here's a quick quote from Edge & Paddock's Arms & armor of the medieval knight (p. 100):
| Quote: | | By about 1490 two new types of sallet had appeared in Germany. One type is the so-called 'black sallet' ... The other form of sallet had a short, laminated neck guard and a bowl modelled to the head, and was equipped with a visor that covered the whole of the wearer's face, making the use of a bevor unnecessary. |
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Hisham Gaballa
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Boris R.
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| Posted: Wed 17 Mar, 2010 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark T wrote: | Apologies for slight threadromancy, but to come back to the op's question and consolidate relevant research here:
| Boris R. wrote: | | now I know that sallet usually comes with a bevor and that rendered the longer visier unprobable, but i'm intrigued if anyway this type of sallet ever existed, historically? |
Here's a quick quote from Edge & Paddock's Arms & armor of the medieval knight (p. 100):
| Quote: | | By about 1490 two new types of sallet had appeared in Germany. One type is the so-called 'black sallet' ... The other form of sallet had a short, laminated neck guard and a bowl modelled to the head, and was equipped with a visor that covered the whole of the wearer's face, making the use of a bevor unnecessary. |
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thanks Mark
well, that are some great looking helmets (especially first and the second one), now i only need to find someone versatile enough to reproduce such a sallet
thanks Hisham!
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 17 Mar, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Kjell Magnusson wrote: | | I'm having a hard time seeing how deep exactly that one is due to the photo angles, but there is one sallet in the Royal Armoury in Stockholm which also goes pretty far down the face. |
Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, but this helmet is actually not an original. It is a 19th C fake. I think the text even goes as far as saying something like "of a type popular in the 15th C" or similar, but it does not make clear it is in fact a 19th C fake (something they should point out, I think). Looking up from below into the helmet bowl, it is very evident it is made from two halves and soldered or welded together. There are quite a few less than authentic objects in the Royal Armouries in Stockholm, unfortunately. Most are not on display.
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Kjell Magnusson
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| Posted: Sun 21 Mar, 2010 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: |
Sorry to be the bearer of sad news, but this helmet is actually not an original. It is a 19th C fake. I think the text even goes as far as saying something like "of a type popular in the 15th C" or similar, but it does not make clear it is in fact a 19th C fake (something they should point out, I think). Looking up from below into the helmet bowl, it is very evident it is made from two halves and soldered or welded together. There are quite a few less than authentic objects in the Royal Armouries in Stockholm, unfortunately. Most are not on display. |
Thanks for the information. It seems I only photographed the English-language version of the sign, where it simply says "early 16th century", so I wasn't about to catch that one on my own.
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This is a standard topic