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Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni
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 Posted: Wed 14 Jul, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Taylor Ellis wrote: | I think a good direction to go with this line may be to attach each sword with a style. For example, a mortuary hilt for Silver, a 15th century longsword for Ringeck/Fiore, a XIV for 1.33, an XIIa for Harlien and so on.  |
Pardon my ignorance. Who/ what manuscript is "Harlien" ?
Cheers,
Alexi
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Taylor Ellis
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| Posted: Thu 15 Jul, 2004 12:32 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, it's spelled Harleian. 
It's an early 15th century English longsword manual. The reasons I suggested for naming the XIIa as the Harleian is because the popularity of this bladetype makes it commercially attractive for Albion to produce, and Paul Wagner, one of the leading English longsword reconstructors in the world, related to me his belief that the sword used in this manual is much more of a cutter than it's German and Italian contemporaries. So, IMO, the closest we have to a manual using the 13th/ early 14th century longsword is the Harleian. YMMV. 
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Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Thu 15 Jul, 2004 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Taylor Ellis wrote: | Sorry, it's spelled Harleian.
It's an early 15th century English longsword manual. The reasons I suggested for naming the XIIa as the Harleian is because the popularity of this bladetype makes it commercially attractive for Albion to produce, and Paul Wagner, one of the leading English longsword reconstructors in the world, related to me his belief that the sword used in this manual is much more of a cutter than it's German and Italian contemporaries. So, IMO, the closest we have to a manual using the 13th/ early 14th century longsword is the Harleian. YMMV. |
Thank you. Now I have heard of another manuscript  Seems like it is not well interpreted. I only found an article on the ARMA site with some interpretation on it.
Do not want to change the subject though.
Alexi
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Thu 15 Jul, 2004 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Baron Alexi,
Should that be your new designation? Well, I assume you have not received your sword yet or you would have written something, but we must get together when you do. I hope that everything is well with you. Jeremy
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Thu 15 Jul, 2004 10:00 am Post subject: |
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 I meant to send that as a PM. Distracted I guess. . .
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Blaz Berlec
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| Posted: Thu 15 Jul, 2004 11:42 am Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: | ...with the beginner, reenactor and practitioner of the Western Martial Arts in mind...
... excellent "practice" swords for their counterparts in the NextGen line...
...All swords will be hot peened and have a simple black leather-wrapped grip. The swords will not be made sharp, but will have "flat" edges suitable for reenactment and swordplay exercise. ...
...The "Squire line" is still a wonderful idea as a cheaper sword will allow practitioners to do steel on steel practices and be more adventurous (hopefully without getting in to attempts to cut iron chains and locks, helmets and other things that were not meant to be cut with a sword) in their cutting practices...
Howy |
Hi, folks at Albion. I have a simple question, and I think I’m not the only one who’s interested in this issue.
If I understand this correctly, "Squire line" swords will be assembled the same way as NexGen swords - wedged (or fixed) cross and pommel, two piece wooden grip, covered with cord and leather. What happens if the sword gets struck *a lot or strongly* on the cross in let's say swordplay exercise? If the cross becomes loose, then it's impossible to fix it "in the kitchen" – the only way I can imagine is by completely removing leather and wooden grip, and then try to wedge or compress the cross back.. And then of course add new grip. Not a simple and cheap process.
Is this a possible drawback of this otherwise far superior grip assembly? Fixing a simple “sandwich” assembled sword is much simpler – you can quite easily repeen or tighten the screw on the pommel – to a certain extent.
So, is this potential problem being addressed? Will there be some destructive tests of prototypes? Can we come and watch?
Thank you in advance for your answer, and best wishes in your business (and private life),
Blaž
Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Howard Waddell
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 15 Jul, 2004 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Blaz Berlec wrote: | | Howard Waddell wrote: | ...with the beginner, reenactor and practitioner of the Western Martial Arts in mind...
... excellent "practice" swords for their counterparts in the NextGen line...
...All swords will be hot peened and have a simple black leather-wrapped grip. The swords will not be made sharp, but will have "flat" edges suitable for reenactment and swordplay exercise. ...
...The "Squire line" is still a wonderful idea as a cheaper sword will allow practitioners to do steel on steel practices and be more adventurous (hopefully without getting in to attempts to cut iron chains and locks, helmets and other things that were not meant to be cut with a sword) in their cutting practices...
Howy |
Hi, folks at Albion. I have a simple question, and I think I’m not the only one who’s interested in this issue.
If I understand this correctly, "Squire line" swords will be assembled the same way as NexGen swords - wedged (or fixed) cross and pommel, two piece wooden grip, covered with cord and leather. What happens if the sword gets struck *a lot or strongly* on the cross in let's say swordplay exercise? If the cross becomes loose, then it's impossible to fix it "in the kitchen" – the only way I can imagine is by completely removing leather and wooden grip, and then try to wedge or compress the cross back.. And then of course add new grip. Not a simple and cheap process.
Is this a possible drawback of this otherwise far superior grip assembly? Fixing a simple “sandwich” assembled sword is much simpler – you can quite easily repeen or tighten the screw on the pommel – to a certain extent.
So, is this potential problem being addressed? Will there be some destructive tests of prototypes? Can we come and watch?
Thank you in advance for your answer, and best wishes in your business (and private life),
Blaž |
Hey Blaz!
The Squire Line, like the NextGen line, will constructed just like period originals and are guaranteed to take the same punishment as a period original.
However, "blade on blade" or stage combat is a very different thing. For a small additional fee, we could go beyond period construction and further secure the guard to avoid this possibility -- talk to Mike if that is something you would be interested in pursuing.
And yes, we do destructive testing all of the time -- you are always welcome to visit and see!
Best,
Howy
Albion Swords Ltd
http://albion-swords.com
http://filmswords.com
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Tom Wegener
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| Posted: Fri 16 Jul, 2004 6:26 am Post subject: |
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hehe, While your offer to come and see the construction process if VERY nice Mr. Waddell , I would have to point out his the fact that Mr Berlec seems to live in eastern europe .
When one of the 17 Jappaneas survivors of Tarawa was asked if thier moral ever started to break he replied " Yes ,, when the dieing Marines kept coming and coming . "
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Gordon Clark
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| Posted: Sat 17 Jul, 2004 5:58 am Post subject: Squire scabbards? |
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For reenactors it would be really nice to have an accompanying line of scabbards with historic look but not necessarily construction that are also priced accessibly. Just a thought...
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sat 17 Jul, 2004 9:33 am Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: |
The Viking (Type H hilt, one piece pommel, Geibig 4 blade) -- $300
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Petersen mentions a couple of Type H hilts with fused pommel and upper guard. Would the squire type H be similar to either of these?
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 17 Jul, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | | Howard Waddell wrote: |
The Viking (Type H hilt, one piece pommel, Geibig 4 blade) -- $300
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Petersen mentions a couple of Type H hilts with fused pommel and upper guard. Would the squire type H be similar to either of these? |
The pommel will be a type "H" just in one piece.
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 17 Jul, 2004 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Squire scabbards? |
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| Gordon Clark wrote: | | For reenactors it would be really nice to have an accompanying line of scabbards with historic look but not necessarily construction that are also priced accessibly. Just a thought... |
Historically accurate scabbards are severely underestimated as a products. Few understand how involved a proper scabbard is to make.
To even get close to something historically accurate demands many hours of hand work. That will put it in another group than the Squire line.
Without having talked to the rest of the gang, the only slolution I can think of is a version of the campaign scabbards that would go with the Squire line.
It means streamlining and shortcuts in the manufacture to get them within a lean budget. It will not allow much in the way of real historical accuracy, but it might be possible to make something that is in some sort of harmony with the swords.
Not to be totally negative about this idea, but it would take some hard thinking to find the right compromizes.
Perhaps an interesting development?
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Sat 17 Jul, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hi!
Eric McHugh
This Viking type "H" one piece pommel, is it like heatshrinked on place or is it hotpeened?
i just want to know how it is sitting there on the tang.
Patrik
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 17 Jul, 2004 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | Hi!
Eric McHugh
This Viking type "H" one piece pommel, is it like heatshrinked on place or is it hotpeened?
i just want to know how it is sitting there on the tang.
Patrik |
Hej Patrik!
Thanks for question. The process is the same as our higher priced swords. We will wedge the pommel in place on the tang. The wedging process is what provides most of the security of the pommel on the tang, then it is hot peened to finish the job. I'm not really sure what you mean by "heatshrinked." If you are asking if we heat up the pommel to provide a tighter fit, well that is one way to do it, but we have such a close fit between our tangs and pommels that the simple act of driving the pommel onto the tang makes it near impossible to remove the pommel. Once peened the pommel is permanently fixed to the tang.
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2004 1:42 am Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Eric McHugh wrote: | | Geoff Wood wrote: | | Howard Waddell wrote: |
The Viking (Type H hilt, one piece pommel, Geibig 4 blade) -- $300
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Petersen mentions a couple of Type H hilts with fused pommel and upper guard. Would the squire type H be similar to either of these? |
The pommel will be a type "H" just in one piece. |
Mr McHugh
Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the imprecision of my question. I'll try again. Given the variety of shapes encompassed by the definition, 'type H', I was wondering if it would be an idea to make the choice somewhat more historically accurate as well as economical by basing the design on one of the recovered examples that was also one piece when made in the viking era.
Regards
Geoff
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2004 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Eric McHugh wrote: | | Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom wrote: | Hi!
Eric McHugh
This Viking type "H" one piece pommel, is it like heatshrinked on place or is it hotpeened?
i just want to know how it is sitting there on the tang.
Patrik |
Hej Patrik!
Thanks for question. The process is the same as our higher priced swords. We will wedge the pommel in place on the tang. The wedging process is what provides most of the security of the pommel on the tang, then it is hot peened to finish the job. I'm not really sure what you mean by "heatshrinked." If you are asking if we heat up the pommel to provide a tighter fit, well that is one way to do it, but we have such a close fit between our tangs and pommels that the simple act of driving the pommel onto the tang makes it near impossible to remove the pommel. Once peened the pommel is permanently fixed to the tang. |
Hej igen Eric!
Well, that was what i mean with that "home made" english word
now i know little more about the pommel and tang.
Tackar!
Patrik
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Blaz Berlec
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| Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2004 10:52 am Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Howard Waddell wrote: |
And yes, we do destructive testing all of the time -- you are always welcome to visit and see!
Howy |
Thank you for your explanation and invitation. Unfortunately, New Glarus seems a bit far (couldn't really remember where in USA Wisconsin really is - had to look on the map).
| Tom Wegener wrote: |
hehe, While your offer to come and see the construction process if VERY nice Mr. Waddell , I would have to point out his the fact that Mr Berlec seems to live in eastern europe . |
Err... Well, I like to think I live in Central Europe. You know, that part of the continent that is considered Eastern by Western Europe and Western by Eastern Europe. But yes, I’m from that vicinity. A quick link to small site with pictures and descriptions of this not so much used term: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Central_Europe
I totally agree that historically accurate scabbards and sword belts are severely underestimated. Not just as products, even as parts of medieval military equipment, and it’s quite hard to get accurate information about them from literature.
And sorry for not writing earlier – I’ve been above 1100 meters (3600 feet) for the whole weekend, with sword and all equipment and some 35 friends on our national Tolkien Society annual gathering in a high alpine meadow. Had a really great time, totally cut off of the problems of every day’s life, TV, radio, electricity and mobile phones. Great experience, but now I really have to take a shower. 
Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2004 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: myArmoury Exclusive Preview -- The Squire Line |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | | Eric McHugh wrote: | | Geoff Wood wrote: | | Howard Waddell wrote: |
The Viking (Type H hilt, one piece pommel, Geibig 4 blade) -- $300
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Petersen mentions a couple of Type H hilts with fused pommel and upper guard. Would the squire type H be similar to either of these? |
The pommel will be a type "H" just in one piece. |
Mr McHugh
Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the imprecision of my question. I'll try again. Given the variety of shapes encompassed by the definition, 'type H', I was wondering if it would be an idea to make the choice somewhat more historically accurate as well as economical by basing the design on one of the recovered examples that was also one piece when made in the viking era.
Regards
Geoff |
This Steinvik Farm sword (Somewhere between H and D?) has always been one of my favorites. Underneath all the decoration seems to be some very fine proportions... Would be nice if this new Viking squire had a similar hilt style and lines. I might be tempted to get one and add some wire decoration and age it a little.
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2004 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Lovely picture. Maybe I should get that book. I'd probably call that a D, but whatever you call it, its a looker.
gw
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sun 18 Jul, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Geoff Wood wrote: | Lovely picture. Maybe I should get that book. I'd probably call that a D, but whatever you call it, its a looker.
gw |
I highly recommend this book. It's a long overdue addition to the field, and a must have for anyone with an interest in Viking swords.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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