[Deshler Davies]

First the subject at hand
Can a knight in full plate armor actually bend all the way over and touch his toes or does the armor impair his movement beyond that point
now to the grey area.
I am deciding on a new suit
However all the research i have provides materials, construction, and time periods.
No one ever gets down to the nitty gritty of it all.
Such as
why would you take
Anima
Plate
Scale mail
Brigadine
Leather
Lorica segmentata
and all the others

So my line in this is
I am looking for a suit that would at least let me touch my toes, but could take a blow from a war hammer.
there are many forms of armor i am sure, and i am interested in everyones opinion about what makes a certain type of armor awesome.

I so far have been leaning towards Anima for protection but i haven't worn everything. So how would i know the ins and outs of the different types of armor and their benefits. Simple my friends i ask all of you ^_^
what makes a suit of armor great?

[Matthew Fedele]

Yup. I can touch my toes (well, almost, I'm usually not stretched out that well these days) in my German peascod with an articulated belly. It's tough to see the articulated belly in most pictures of armor, but it was done. The articulated belly seems to be rarely reproduced.

Cheers!
Matt

[Jean Thibodeau]

I think it's possible if the armour is well fitted and pointed and strapped on properly: If parts are a bit loose they might end up sliding down in awkward ways.

As to being able to take a blow from a war hammer it depends: Is it a solid hit or a glancing hit ? If it's a real war hammer you are taking about and not a simulator remember that war hammers where designed specifically to harm someone in armour by seriously denting it or at least transmit the energy through the plate and doing serious damage even if the plate looks undamaged or just slightly dented.


The bigger war hammers, Poleaxes and Bec de Corbin are devastatingly effective against armour and even more so when the user is trained in it's use.

[P. Cha]

If it´s a real warhammer and your talking about solid hits, then I don´t think any armor will do you much good. If it´s a simulated warhammer, I find that leather lamelar generally works best.

As for reduced mobility, when I use to fight in full plate in the SCA, I could do my hap ki do rolls just fine with the armor on. So if it´s fitted properly to you, I wouldn´t worry too much about reduced mobility.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[JE Sarge]

I can bend, squat, sit, touch toes, twist, and raise my arms over my head. It will ultimately depend on what type of harness you end up getting, as some may hamper your finer movements more than others - but you should be able to have good range of motion in anything you have made. It should fit like a second skin on you.

I'll second the comments on heat / dehydration. Those are probably your number one worry because they can kill you in even today's enviornment.

[Deshler Davies]

i thought for sure the breast plate would ram into your stomach while bending.
Anyone want to explain why that doesn't happen?
second
change warhammer to sword
i was tired last night when i wrote that and armor was most effective against swords and such
then onto the next question
where do theses armors excel?
all of them.
For starters i know that plate is probably the most useful against swords and light arrows at the cost of weight and agility in some cases
Anima seems like some of the best armor in the world and i am extremely curious about it
heres what i gathered about it
"This style of armor is called an anima (Italian) or spangenharness (German). It consists of a series of lames, or of an upper plate and a set of lames, which are attached to leather straps. This is an efficient combination that allows for a high degree of protectiveness without forfeiting flexibility. Yes, I can touch my toes in armor, or do side bends."

http://swordmaiden.com/wp-content/uploads/eichlinganima.jpg

then there is scale male which has got to have some pros and cons
basically i am looking for the pros and cons in all armor including plate.

[Benjamin H. Abbott]

I think y'all may be overstating the effectiveness of hammers against plate armor. While a couple of accounts claim a single blow to the head could incapacitate or kill, both records of armored pollaxe duels and manuals suggest armor granted considerable protection.

[Felix R.]

[P. Cha]

[Ben P.]

I don't know about in armour but I noticed that if I exerted myself in hot humid climate (which I lived in for most of my childhood and early teens) that I was fine if I kept going but if I stopped then my body caught up with me and I really felt the heat and the exhaustion like Jean said it's darn near impossible to sweat.

What's really scary is when you feel ice cold . . . in a 119 degree weather with 100 percent humidity

One thing I'd advise is to drink a ton of emer-gen-C

[Matthew Amt]

[Ben P.]

Keep in mind that the wearer would also have a plackart, good mail (preferably doubled I would think) and several thick layers of padding and leather under the armour and I would think over as well and the cuirass would also having reinforcements and would on a 5-10-6+ 180 pound man who has a shield and is moving and fighting back

[Johan S. Moen]

[P. Cha]

Matthew, keep in mind that this is for ideal hits. Ones that are hit square and solid...hit that in combat is not likely to happen. When we messed up and the hit wasn't square, the plate armor kept the wooden core from breaking. Yes I realize that the medium isn't perfect...but it isn't as far off as you think.

Ben, there was chain (butted) under the mail...no padding but a sinle mat is more padding then say your forearm or ribs would have with padding and flesh. Once again, not a perfect test...so take that with a grain of salt...in anycase, wearing any armor and using real warhammer against said armor while wearing is what I would consider foolhardily dangerous no matter what the armor is.

[Zac Evans]

To the original poster:

Why is it so important that you be able to touch your toes? No fighting style I know of has such a stance contained within it, and actually, if you were wearing period correct harness for plate armour you would break the points holding your hose up before you were stopped by the armour. A more pertinent consideration would be how long can I fight in it, how easily can I move in it, and how much protection will it give me. Touching your toes is as legitimate a test of armour as being able to do the splits, or tightrope walking. You need to be able to move well enough to do what you have to, which is fight. A well made harness of any type will allow this. They wouldn't have been developed otherwise. The most advanced harness is probably the anime cuirasses you are interested in, but be aware that they often came with parts of exchange for different jobs, so while the anima harness gives greater maneuverability they often had plackarts attached when the fighting got fierce, or for jousts etc.

Zac

[Andrew Maxwell]

[Benjamin H. Abbott]

I can't think of any example of blows from a hammer or similar weapon to anything other than the head hurting a man in plate. I can't think of any blows in pollaxe manuals directed against anything other than the head. While I wouldn't want to be hit with warhammer under any circumstances, I doubt blows to the body or limbs typically amounted to much.

As for shorter hammers, it's my understanding that cavalry used such weapons in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. According to Sydney Anglo, the Italian writer Massario discussed cavalry hammers and axes in the early seventeenth century. He apparently wrote that the spikes on both were effective against armor but these weapons saw more used in personal combat than in the field because of the difficulty of making blows and recovering after an attack. This comes from Anglo; I'd like to see a word-for-word translation of Massario.

[Alex Spreier]

[Andrew Maxwell]