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Gary Grzybek
Location: Stillwater N.J. Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 559
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 Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: Historic examples of a type Z ? |
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Just wondering if anyone had pictures of any surviving type Z Viking swords. I've admired this style in reproduction form including my very own Albion Gotland but can't recall seeing an original.
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2005 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Historic examples of a type Z ? |
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| Gary Grzybek wrote: | | Just wondering if anyone had pictures of any surviving type Z Viking swords. I've admired this style in reproduction form including my very own Albion Gotland but can't recall seeing an original. |
Hi Gary...
Here are a few Zs of the AE variety...
First a lady's sword--Princess Suontaka. And a twin with what looks to be pattern welded hilt furniture... (If so, the only sword I have seen with such.)
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jan, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Here are a few pics of the Dyback Sword...
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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Gary Grzybek
Location: Stillwater N.J. Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Fri 07 Jan, 2005 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Thanks guys! 
Now I remember some of these but couldn't recall where I saw them.
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Justin King
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I found this thread after searching for examples of swords of this type, and decided to bring it back up. It appears that there were a number of photos which are no longer viewable, I was hoping for some more pictures if anyone has any, thanks!
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Justin...
Here are pictures of a fantasic find from Bengtsarvet Haradsarvet Sweden with silver inlay.
ks
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Sword preserved by Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden
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Sword preserved by Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden
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Sword preserved by Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden. Photo by Peter Johnsson
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Sword preserved by Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden. Photo by Peter Johnsson
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Sword preserved by Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden
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Sword preserved by Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
Last edited by Kirk Lee Spencer on Mon 28 Sep, 2009 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Justin King
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, Kirk, that is a very nice example and the photos are excellent-very revealing of the true 3-dimensional form of the hilt components, which have much more contour than is sometimes apparent in straight-on photos. The grip on this piece also seems to be remarkably short, unless I am mistaking the proportions of the rest of the hilt. The remaining decoration is wonderful to see, this sword would have been absolutely breathtaking when it was newly made...wow.
The reason for my interest is that I recently managed to aquire an Albion Gotland. The hilt pieces on it are very flat-faced, with little rounding, which is a striking contrast to your example.
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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
Location: Madison, WI Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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While we are talking about type Z hilts, does anyone know what the little bronze (?) tabs on the pommel are for, or how they are attached?
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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| Posted: Sun 27 Sep, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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As always your photos are beautiful.
The details are very clear.
Thank you, Kirk 
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Maurizio D'Angelo wrote: | As always your photos are beautiful.
The details are very clear.
Thank you, Kirk
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Thanks Maurizio...
However these are not my photos but have been gleaned from my research. I was having trouble getting my computer to link to the website so I did not get the credits in (they are in now). Two of the photos are those of Peter Johnsson and the other, as well, are available because of the good graces of the Historical Museum in Stockholm Sweden in allowing images to be made.
I have noticed that there are many more images from museums becoming available, even very nice websites to showcase these treasures. The new website, showing large high resolution images of the recent Anglo-Saxon find at Stratfordshire has been a tremendous encouragement to me on many levels... quick access to preliminary data and detailed photo archives and the phenomenal quality and quantity of the find. I think that this will increase attendance in meseums as it opens up a wider interest in this amazingly beautiful art.
Because of my computer problems I was not able to download the other Type Z finds...
Here they are.
ks
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Preserved in the British Museum
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Preserved in the Cluny Museum
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Found at Dyback Sweden. Preserved in the Historical Museum Stockholm Sweden.
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Found at Vesilahti Finland 11th century. Find preserved by Suomen Kansallismuse, Helsinki Finland. Image from "Swords of the Viking Age" by Ian Peirce. Grip Length given in Peirce as 74mm
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Length 90cm. Blade length 74cm. Blade width 45mm. Found at Engrave Brzese Kujawshi Poland. Preserved by Museum Archeologiczne, Warszawie, Poland. Image from "Marks and Inscriptions on Medieval Swords in Poland" by Marian Glosek
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Pikula wrote: | | While we are talking about type Z hilts, does anyone know what the little bronze (?) tabs on the pommel are for, or how they are attached? |
Hi Michael...
I have often wondered about this too. They appear to be little bridges of bronze. possibly they helped keep twisted wires in their place in the grooves.
Other than that, I have no idea.
ks
Attachment: 142.72 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Maurizio D'Angelo
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| Posted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Michael Pikula wrote: | | While we are talking about type Z hilts, does anyone know what the little bronze (?) tabs on the pommel are for, or how they are attached? |
Hi Michael,
the upper pommel, it seems fixed with 1 rivet. If you enlarge the photo, it seems clear the connection.
As for the little bronze, I agree with Kirk, maybe fix a decoration. They are in line with the groove of pommel.
Is a hypothesis, of course, I think likely.
Best
Mau
Attachment: 116.58 KB
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin King wrote: | | Thank you, Kirk, that is a very nice example and the photos are excellent-very revealing of the true 3-dimensional form of the hilt components, which have much more contour than is sometimes apparent in straight-on photos. The grip on this piece also seems to be remarkably short, unless I am mistaking the proportions of the rest of the hilt... |
Hey Justin...
Yeah, based on the centimeter strip in the photo, it seems the grip is about 75mm. The other grip length I have on a Type Z is 74mm. That would rally cramp the hand if all four fingers were required to fit between the guards. However, if only three fingers were used and the little finger was allowed to rest on the pommel, or if the forefinger hooked around the guard, then I could understand such a short grip.
take care
ks
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Historic examples of a type Z ? |
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| Kirk Lee Spencer wrote: |
Hi Gary...
Here are a few Zs of the AE variety...
First a lady's sword--Princess Suontaka. And a twin with what looks to be pattern welded hilt furniture... (If so, the only sword I have seen with such.) |
In case anyone is interested in these, here are the pictures again...
ks
Attachment: 91.64 KB
Image from "Swords of the Viking Age" by Ian Peirce
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Image from "VIKINGS: North Atlantic Saga" ed. William Fitzhugh and Elisabeth Ward
Attachment: 80.06 KB
Image by Peter Johnsson
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Nathan Gilleland
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| Posted: Mon 28 Sep, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Whoa! Somebody aged a Valkyrja and put it in a museum!  Just kidding, but wow. Uncanny resemblance. Maybe a museum line Valkyrja is in order?
It's really cool to see such beautiful examples of swords that were not just functional, but not just art. Craftsmen really were amazing people to make such morbid tools look so graceful and elegant... It always fascinates me.
Seek Honor before Wealth,
Truth before Honor,
God Before all
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Jeff Marlin
Location: Illinois Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu 01 Oct, 2009 6:30 am Post subject: |
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What fascinates me is if you look at the decoration on the sword Kirk posted, the one with the little bronze bridges on the pommel, it seems to be from the same workshop as the sword C257 on pg. 96 of Peirce`s Swords of the Viking Age, which is also the one on which the Albion Vinland was based. You have the same kind of spiral and dot motif, but also those little bronze bridges, which as far as I know are unique to C257 and its identical twin in the Museum of Bergens (at the top of plate 3 in Pierce). If anyone knows about other swords with this feature I`d love to know. If I`m right it would also confirm that the types R and Z were being made at the same place and time.
"With love and action shall a man live in memory and in song."
"Farmer, those are hideous weapons!"
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Michael Pikula
Industry Professional
Location: Madison, WI Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 411
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| Posted: Thu 01 Oct, 2009 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Hi Jeff, you are very right, the C257 from SoVA looks like it could have been made by similar hands or the same workshop as the example Kirk posted above. The bronze bridges are really something I'd love to know more about since I haven't seen any cases where decoration was held in place aside from the start and stop point at the base. Maybe the wire decoration had to be terminated early to help keep the line or for some other utilitarian purpose?
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Jeff Marlin
Location: Illinois Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu 01 Oct, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Who knows? I`m thinking the bronze bits are just more decoration with the additional purpose of securing the wires.
If you look at the top of the pommel shot it seems like the groves for the wire continue over the top of the pommel, past the bridges, so I don`t think the wires ended under them.
I just think its cool to see the same hands at work on hilts of different types.
"With love and action shall a man live in memory and in song."
"Farmer, those are hideous weapons!"
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Jean Le-Palud
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This is a standard topic
