[Mark Hamilton]

Hi, new to the forum, but like pretty much everyone here I've been fascinated by swords since I was a kid.

I'm finally in a position where I can afford quality pieces and am now planning out the collection that I want to put together over the next 2-3 years, and am hoping for some input from you guys!

My interest (and my area of academic specialty) is the Norman expansion from the beginning of the 11th century through to the end of the 12th, also encompassing the first three crusades and the intervening periods. My hope is to put together a collection of swords that will broadly represent those used during this period.

On a reputation basis, Albion swords are where I'm looking and this is what I have in mind!

1. The Reeve - to represent the swords used in the conflicts during the minority of William the Bastard and up to the Norman invasion of England and also the Norman expansion in southern Italy, and mercenary activity in Spain during this period.
2. The Senlac - to represent the swords used from the invasion of England and on the first crusade, and up to a period somewhere in the middle of the 1100's.
3. The Hospitaller/Templar/Vigil/Oakeshott (really need some advice on this choice!) - to cover the period form early 1100's up to the collapse of the Latin Kingdoms 1188 ish and the Norman invasion of Ireland.
4. The knight - to close out my period of interest. Is it correct to assume this style would be beginning to appear around 1200?

Those are my thoughts, I'm open to correction and suggestion on any of these points, and am really looking forward to hearing of any comments and suggestions you might have! I'm particularly keen to hear if anyone thinks I'm missing out something important from this period, and of any suggestions of anything else that should/could be included.

Many thanks,
Mark

[Justin King]

I just want to add a suggestion that you might find collecting to be more satisfying if you consider your purchases in a more individual light. It is good that you know your main area of interest and are able to afford high-quality swords from the start, this gives you a better understanding of what you are looking for than many of us, when we started. But collecting is a learning process and an ongoing experience in itself, and in the space of a few years you may find that your interests and/or priorities have shifted.
For me, collecting has turned out to be an evolution of my fascination and understanding of swords, and my collection now contrasts sharply from my interests and intentions when I began. At one point I intended to collect representations of the major sword types from my areas and periods of historical interest. I achieved this to some extent, but eventually I have found more enjoyment in collecting distinct or remarkable examples that represent a point of interest in the development of the sword itself, rather than a time or place in history.
I suppose most of us have, or have had, a prioritized list of pieces we intend to collect, this is natural enough. I have found, however, that some my most satisfying purchases were ones that were not on my list, these are the unexpected delights which make collecting exciting, and have broadened my understanding and appreciation of these most beautiful of weapons. Keeping your mind open to new interests is a key part of having a hobby that keeps growing, and that you will enjoy for a lifetime.

[Mark Hamilton]

You've made some interesting points! Sadly all they've done is make me want a couple of Viking period swords and maybe a gladius and spatha or two! These are also periods that I have a passing interest in, but the Norman culture and Crusades has been my passion since I was twelve or thirteen, and I haven't lost interest in the two decades since then! Nevertheless, a viking pattern weld style and one of the transitional styles would be a nice intro for the collection! I really am in danger of getting carried away though if I don't narrow myself specifically, and they might be nice additions at a later date but sadly my budget is not limitless, and I want to ensure that every piece I do buy is of the best quality available. I've held off on buying any swords for a long time, as I didn't want to buy junk just for the sake of having one.

The only real queries I have is which of the Templar/Hospitaller/Vigil/Oakeshott swords for the 1100's would be the best choice, and if the Knight is suitable for 1190 ish onward, and confirmation that the other choices I've made are appropriate for the chosen period.

Thanks for your input and concerns Justin, ordinarily I would agree with them whole heartedly, but this project has been in the back of my mind since I was in Uni, and I've been waiting for a long time to be able to act on it! I'm sure you and many others on the forum are familiar with the excitement now that I'm close to owning a few of these works of art!

[Dan Dickinson]

Well, i'd say that the Knight probably isn't the best for your stated period. The combination of peen block, octagonally sectioned style 2 cross, and type J pommel seem to put it more firmly at c.1250 onwards according to Oakeshott.
However, the Vigil seems like a sword that could fill the 1100's and Early 1200's role nicely.
That being said, the Knight is a great sword and I certainly don't think you'd be disappointed having one
I hope this helps,
Dan

[Luka Borscak]

Albion Knight is more or less appropriate for the turn of the 12th to 13th century, but I would just suggest you to look at the Ritter for the same period to have a bit of diversity in pommels.
Templar/Hospitaller/Vigil/Oakeshott are all great and very special swords and you can't miss with any of them but they are very different swords. Templar and Hospitaller are long powerful swords made specifically for mounted combat. Vigil is shorter, of course powerful cutter but maybe more versatile. Oakeshott is very special sword and lances are still broken about it's dating, not unlike Vigil's dating. It's slimmer than other swords you mention and the geometry is unique for it's time, ridges on each side of the fuller, hollowgrind... They are all plausible for the 12th century, but while Hospitaller and Templar are more typical swords of the era, Vigil and Oakeshott are more controversial.
I warn you, I didn't handle any of them but I think I didn't say anything too nonsense as I am very interested in those swords and I have read pretty much anything that was said about them around here.

[Hadrian Coffin]

Nice idea, you have almost the same passion I do... I really just love the conquest itself though, the Bayeux Tapestry is what sparked my interest when I was about 9 and first read about it, by 12 I had already been paid to lecture at a local college. Frankly you have a nice list of swords but I would really advise against getting them all... You are talking ~$4000 +the price of scabbards (for period appropriate ones you are talking another ~$4000). Instead of simply buying all of them at once, I would suggest going for a properly made custom or two from a respected maker (Patrick Barta, Peter Johnson, Michael Pikula, JT Palikko, etc.) Albion makes decent swords, but Albion is not the end all be all. I personally find Albions to be a bit a-historical for my preferance. An Albion, while sturdy and nice looking, does not (to me) invoke the feeling of the numerous historical examples I have held. Albions are CNC milled and ground to shape using very modern high carbon spring steels, and use such modern materials such as epoxy. A properly made piece using bog iron smelted with animal bits to make it into steel, forged and stone ground to shape, hand polished, utilizing iron fittings, etc. really feels (and looks) different. Pace yourself, when your in the $4,000+ range you should go for the highest quality.
Best,
Hadrian

[Luka Borscak]

Well, yes, I agree, you could cover the whole period you want with 2 custom swords if you wanted.

[Mark Hamilton]

Great replies, thanks guys!

I'll certainly be pacing myself, taking my budget into consideration, I would hope to pick them up at a rate of about 1 every 6 to 9 months, maybe a little slower.

Custom is certainly an option I'm considering, but was concerned that it might be prohibitively expensive, and for there to be an extremely long delay from order to getting it. From what I've seen most of the custom makers seem to have 2 year waiting lists. I would hope to order my first piece in the next couple of weeks and would really prefer to have it in a couple of months.

I would really love for my swords to have been constructed from a historically accurate process, but the Albion models have put forward such an accessible image of what I was trying to put together in my head, they are a very attractive option. I will perhaps mail a couple of the European custom makers, but I would hate to waste their time pestering them if it was always going to be out of my price range.

Also, its important for me for all my swords to be unsharpened for safety concerns. I won't be using them for cutting or anything like that, I just want good examples of something I've been very interested in all of my life. I would only consider a sharp sword if it was absolutely impossible for me to have that model any other way. The fact that I won't be using it for cutting or such like makes me wonder if having a custom made sword would be over doing it, although a custom pattern welded Viking sword is sneaking into my longer term plans!

Anyway, thanks again for the replies, and as always I'm eager to hear suggestions, corrections etc. Also thanks for the info on the knight, I think I'll drop that one off the list!

Mark

[Brian K.]

I would echo Dan's thoughts, and more specifically the Vigil. It's a beautiful sword, and one that impresses immediately. However, the Knight is an exceptional sword and would make a fantastic first sword. If I were to go back to the beginning I would make the Knight my first choice. As for meeting your time period, the Vigil seem's more appropriate.

[Jason Manville]

Mark;

Another suggestion that I would have is to set a specific limit or number on the total of swords in your collection.

If you set a defined total it will cause you to be more considerate when buying swords. For example, if the collection would only contain thirty pieces. If you purchased the thirty-one sword you would sale a sword to keep the number at thirty. If you keep it at thirty then you will not just buy swords for the sake of buying swords knowing that you will have to give up a sword.

[David Lewis Smith]

Well except for the buying from Albion, they make really nice stuff.

When I first started collecting all I wanted was basket hilted Scots claymores but as I saw more swords, more 'things' I liked I found my self with a wider interest. I still love my Scots Claymores but I have swords from nearly every time period (many from Albion) and culture. My really good stuff is all middle eastern or Persian as far as antiques go. My best modern production swords are my albino Viking and Migration stuff (Migration D and Kragehul).

Also do not limit your self in numbers, just in number of what you display. That might sound odd but a home can start to look tacky covered in bladed weapons, one of my friends has about 30 very expensive antique Revolutionary War swords, he has two on display and rotates them out of the safe he keeps them in every month or so.

Do not be afraid to by a used sword, myArmoury market place and SFI Classifieds have provided most of my albinos, the fact is I have only three Albions from the store the others came from other collectors, about seven in all. This will also allow you to buy More swords LOL

Talk it over with your significant other, swords can be art, but not every one appreciates them. Let your significant other in on the decisions of where and when they are displayed. (personally I bribe my wife with very expensive yarn)

Regards
Dave

[Adam S.]

I have not handled the Vigil, but I have had in hand the Templar/Hospitaller/Oakeshott as well as the Knight.

All of them are great fun, but I have to say they all handle quite differently. Do you plan on cutting with any of these? If so I would not choose the Oakeshott until you have a good amount of experience under your belt. Not to say that the blade isn't as resilient as the others, it is, but it's better in the hands of a more experienced cutter- IMO.

I definitely second David's recommendation to check the classifieds. There is advantages to buying straight from Albion (Guarantee, furniture finish, grip color), but if these don't matter to you then there's nothing wrong with a used blade.

~A

PS- No love for the Norman? WTF, I LOVE that sword...

[Justin King]

Since it is the only sword I own among those mentioned, I can heartily recommend the Vigil, if you can accept the dating as fitting your period. This is arguable but I tend to accept Oakeshott's dating over any other single source. The sword itself is truly a magnificent piece.

[Mark Hamilton]

[Jeremy V. Krause]

[Chad Arnow]

Mark,
If you're patient, Albion may redo their scabbard line and offer more affordable options. From their Facebook page:

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Julien M]

Damn I never knew Albion was on facebook!

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Nathan Keysor]

I have the Oakeshott and the Vigil. Both are excellent choices. I also have the Bayeux which has the same blade as the Reeve. It is much nicer then the Albion website pics would lead you to believe. Mine has the antiqued hilt which adds a lot of character. I also recommend the St Maurice and the Gadhjalt and Ritter. Did I mention I love Albions? Once you get that first one it's hard to stop!