[Michael Curl]

How popular (and when were they popular) were two-handed swords? Longsword seems to get top billing but I never see or hear anything about two-handed ones. Also, how would its use have differed from a longsword, would it be exactly the same or would the weight and length require some modifications?

[Roger Hooper]

I depends on your definitions.

Longsword is especially slippery. It meant a lot of different things to different times and people. Do you mean the 13th century Grete swords, or the later hand-and-a- half and bastard swords?

By two handers, do you mean the Grete swords that I mentioned above, or the larger and much heaver designs of the late 15th and mostly 16th centuries?

[Werner Stiegler]

Well, moulinettes - moving the sword in a full circle in a windmill-like motion and striking another spot instead of going for a regular meisterhau - seemed to be a somwhat twohander-specific technique. I've seen it demonstrated in a video about english twohander techniques and I've read about it in an italian manual too.

[Michael Ekelmann]

The big two handers were a specialist weapon for use in certain tactical situations. For instance, Steve Hick did a seminar on the montante, an Iberian two handed sword. It was used by bodyguards, marines and fencing maestros. It was considered an elite weapon. IRRC, there were scenarios on dealing with multiple opponents, clearing a crowd, separating overeager fencers and fighting another montante.

[Maurizio D'Angelo]

[Michael Curl]

As far as defining it between the too, I must say that I am too ignorant to do so. So how bout we discuss both.


p.s. I was under the impression that the 15-16th century ones were a not widespread. Sort of like the montante.

p.p.s. would claymore use have differed from longsword use?

[Bill Grandy]

[Bill Grandy]

[Werner Stiegler]

[Bill Grandy]

[Thom R.]

I have examined 4 16th c claymores up close (i.e. in my gloved hands), two in museums and two outside of museums. One thing you will notice is that the blades are all a bit different, but it is clear when you examine them that they were not intended to be used in what we would consider today to be classical longsword (Talhoffer, Fiore) fencing. The blades are often quite thin in the cutting region near the COP, and the points are often rounded. The blades generally sag under their own weight. The handles are long and this effects the pivot points of the swords. The long handles allow one to spread your hands apart and impart tremendous final acceleration going into a cut. Point control seems to be secondary in their design, the design seems to be cutting oriented (for lack of a better description). In short they don't feel like what most people today would consider a classical Oakeshott XV, XVIII, XIX, or XX longsword. I am not saying that they couldn't be used like a longsword, just that they seemed to be designed for a different purpose. There may have been specific training systems for these big claymores, but I don't know if any written treatises survive.

Although gael history relies to a great extent an oral tradition (right on up to the 18th c) there is enough info to suggest that these large two handed swords were not as common as pole arms, spears, and single hand swords, and were generally seen as specialized weapons of war used by higher status individuals (senior warriors, clan leaders, bodyguards to clan chiefs). This was also a culture that used two handed axes in battle right on up to the 18th c. The oral history of clan warfare indicates that the claymores were used much like these other large two handed wepons. When the MacDonalds battled the MacLeods at Glen Brittle in 1601, near the Cuilins, the targe and sword men were up front and the polearms and claymores were behind in the second rank. This implies to me that the claymore was used as a long striking weapon in battle whenever an opening in the wall occurred or whenever an opportunity arose. However, the mythology of these swords being primarily used to cut pike shafts seems to be just that - myth.

Although both Ireland and Scotland had long traditions in the use of spear, for a variety of reasons gael culture was slow to adopt well ordered formations of pike. In both countries great two handed swords were seen all the way to 1745, but eventually the use of the large two hand cleighmor (as well as large two handed pole arms) began to rapidly fall out of use once continental techniques of pike and shot came to dominate warfare in the early 1600s. There are several instances in the early 1600s in both countries where well formed pike put lines of swordsmen to route. This led to both countries finally adopting pike and shot to battle the English in the mid 1600s (O'Neill's troops at Benburb in 1646, Leslie's army in English Civil War). The Irish and Scots were also keen on guns from the early 1600s on. So by the time of the Cromwellian invasions and late 1600s the 2 handed swords were largely ceremonial weapons. Its a shame we don't have any surviving written treatises on training with such large swords.

[Bill Grandy]

Hi Thom,

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Steven H]

[William Carew]

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Bill Grandy]

[Eric Myers]

[Steven H]

Eric and Bill-

Thanks for your replies. I was already planning to add some bigger swords to our "arsenal" so the advice turns out to be timely.

Cheers,
Steven

[William Carew]