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Pat K.
Location: Otautahi , Te Waipounamu , NZ Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 6
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Posted: Sun 14 Dec, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: Re: The Wooden Weapons Thread. |
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Shahril Dzulkifli wrote: |
Pat, I originally referred to the club above as a 'tiki club' after the tiki carving over its handle. |
Hallo Shahril Dzulkifli ,
It is not actually a tiki.
'Tiki' is not a carving style , it is an East Polynesian name for carved figures.
to quote wiki,
"In Central Eastern Polynesian cultures of the Pacific Ocean, tiki is a name given to large carvings of humanoid form. These carvings often serve to mark the boundaries of sacred or significant sites. The word appears as tiki in New Zealand Māori, Cook Islands Māori, Tuamotuan, and Marquesan; as ti'i in Tahitian, and as ki'i in Hawaiian. The word has not been recorded from the languages of Western Polynesia or of Rapanui (Easter Island)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiki
and in NZ a small tiki is worn as a pendant , a 'hei' , hence the name Hei-Tiki.
Tekoteko is the name for larger statues in NZ.
Also , I should point out that Ku's main association is warfare , any other 'portfolios' are more by association than direct involvement .
I have seen that weapon on an internet sale site , with the same description .
Pat .
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Stephen Renico
Location: Detroit Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 51
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Posted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I don't post often, but I lurk here often, and this thread is one of the things which has really inspired me to make a few wooden weapon reproductions. Besides, a thread this good needs a bump every now and then, anyway.
I made this out of a beech sapling which a farmer let me harvest, since it was "in his way". I never worked with beech before; it's really heavy and fairly dense: the perfect material for a good root-ball war club. After stripping the bark, sanding, staining, and drying it, I soaked it for a full week in the linseed oil tank. I also found a new way to get a good, realistic looking patina going.
Full Shot:
With a 30" ruler:
From the top:
From the handle:
I love the head on this thing. While stripping and cleaning it, I found that it had a natural "hole" from the way a smaller root grew and connected with the rest of the head:
Another head shot:
The roots had really deep fissures between them, making for some nice potential impact points. This is a shot looking down the handle to illustrate what I'm talking about:
And one directly overhead to illustrate further:
Finally, up against the tree in the yard:
Thanks for looking.
"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." -Thucydides.
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M. Eversberg II
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Posted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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That is a very attractive club.
M.
This space for rent or lease.
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Jean Thibodeau
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Posted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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M. Eversberg II wrote: | That is a very attractive club.
M. |
I'll second that: Very attractive and it feels/looks like the knuckles of a fist in an abstract sort of way.
Love the colour and wood grain.
After the long soaking in the linseed oil I imagine the oil goes very deep into the wood, what do you do after taking it out of the tank ? I'm assuming that you wiped it off and rubbed the surface to polish it.
I've used linseed oil for years but I haven't ever left it in a tank of oil so I'm curious about the advantages of doing it this way: I usually cover wood I want to treat with a liberal coat of oil, let it soak in for a few hours and then rub in and off all the oil I can and let it " rest " for a week or so and then re-do the oil. Once there is already a nice finish I just refresh it occasionally with a light wipe on/wipe off to maintain the finish.
What I don't do is let the oil dry heavy on the surface as that takes a long time and leaves a film that is easily scratched and it looks better when the dried oil in the wood fibres rather than sitting on the surface.
Does the long soaking mean that although the surface oil dries and seals the surface the oil deep in the wood doesn't really dry and keeps the wood grain supple and hard to spilt ? ( Over decades or centuries the oil might dry completely ? )
Mostly guessing how the oil behaves/dries here as I might be wrong, but linseed oil is a very slow oil to dry and once the close to the surface oil has dried the deep oil may take a lot of time to dry ?
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Boyd C-F
Location: Nelson, New Zealand Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 57
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Posted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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I was privileged to do a little work in the National Museum of New Zealand, Te Papa Tongarewa in the Pacific Island collection and there were wooden weapons of every form and shape.
Of interest were fishing gafs which were also used as weapons (as shown in a post above) which eventually got transfered into a metal shape with a long blade and a hook.
The most awesome thing was a Kiribati sword that looked exactly like a long sword with a cool crossguard and bladed with sharks teeth tied on with human hair. No photo though
There was an awfully large amount of human hair used for cords and decoration.
Plus a textile armour similar to that above - http://collections.tepapa.govt.nz/objectdetai...m=kiribati
Some of the woods used may have been Pacific Kauri - Many of the Fijian clubs (some are huge!) are made as Stephen's club - the roots providing the spiky bits...
Then I got a chance to check out some of the Japanese weapons...
Sadly they have hardly any of the huge numbers of weapons photographed on line
Cheers
Boyd
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Stephen Renico
Location: Detroit Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 51
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Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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M. Eversberg II wrote: | That is a very attractive club.
M. |
Thank you very much. It took quite a while to finish.
"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." -Thucydides.
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Stephen Renico
Location: Detroit Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 51
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Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Jean Thibodeau wrote: | After the long soaking in the linseed oil I imagine the oil goes very deep into the wood, what do you do after taking it out of the tank ? I'm assuming that you wiped it off and rubbed the surface to polish it. |
I just let it sit in the garage for a couple of days to dry out in the summer heat. Once or twice a day I'd go out and wipe off any excess that either sweat out of the wood or dripped out of a fissure or hole.
Quote: | I've used linseed oil for years but I haven't ever left it in a tank of oil so I'm curious about the advantages of doing it this way: I usually cover wood I want to treat with a liberal coat of oil, let it soak in for a few hours and then rub in and off all the oil I can and let it " rest " for a week or so and then re-do the oil. Once there is already a nice finish I just refresh it occasionally with a light wipe on/wipe off to maintain the finish.
What I don't do is let the oil dry heavy on the surface as that takes a long time and leaves a film that is easily scratched and it looks better when the dried oil in the wood fibres rather than sitting on the surface.
Does the long soaking mean that although the surface oil dries and seals the surface the oil deep in the wood doesn't really dry and keeps the wood grain supple and hard to spilt ? ( Over decades or centuries the oil might dry completely ? ) |
Actually, I started by fire-hardening the head in my propane forge. I put it in and started to gently heat up the head until it browned. I then immediately put it into the linseed tank ("quenched" it, I guess, for lack of a better term), figuring that, in addition to hardening, the wood grain would have expanded and soaked up more linseed oil.
Additionally, I only finished this with 120 grit paper. Knowing that it's harder to use wood stain on something finished in, say, 400 grit paper, I don't think it would have soaked up the linseed oil as well, either. I also "cut" the linseed oil 6 to 1 in my tank with turpentine. This is an old wood finishing trick, as the turpentine opens the grain, allowing the linseed oil to penetrate further into the wood. The turpentine then evaporates, allowing the grain to close and trap the linseed oil inside. I got that trick from a book I have called Practical Wood Finishing Methods (c. 1940). I've had good success with this method when making axe or hatchet handles, cudgels, walking sticks, and hardwood sticks for escrima.
My soak tank is actually a fairly simple affair, and costs around $50 total to make. 5' of 4" wide PVC pipe, 2 caps, an empty bucket, and half a bag of concrete gives you this:
I capped the bottom, put it into a bucket, and filled it with concrete:
Filled with 1.5 gallons of linseed oil and 1 quart of turpentine:
This thing is great for sticks, cudgels, and any tool handles, especially axes and hawk handles. When I drive a wedge into an axe, hatchet, or hawk handle, I do it right after taking the handle out of the Soak Tank. The wood is actually pliable, but when it dries, it's rock hard.
"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." -Thucydides.
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Boyd C-F
Location: Nelson, New Zealand Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 57
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Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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do you use mineral or vege - turpentine?
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Jean Thibodeau
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Posted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, diluted with turpentine would make it less viscous and it probably takes care of the sticky film on the surface problem and accelerates drying as well as deep penetration into the wood.
You might also ( In addition ) do a quick wipe on and wipe off with undiluted linseed oil after sanding the surface very smooth on the club to add to the lustre and bring out the wood grain even more.
Really like this club and the only thing I would do differently would be to make it as a very stout walking stick by making it a little longer and adding a metal tip ( brass ), this just because I like walking sticks and it gives one and excuse to carry it around.
Ever thought of making these or walking sticks and selling them ? ( I would find a walking stick like this very tempting. )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Sam Gordon Campbell
Location: Australia. Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 678
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Posted: Fri 26 Jun, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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Hey hey, with what I've learn from this thread, I think I might try to turn this club thing into a Godendag
Attachment: 29.91 KB
My first medieval weapon attempt...
Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
Founder of The Van Dieman's Land Stage Gladiators.
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Joel Minturn
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Posted: Fri 26 Jun, 2009 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I made something like that as a kid once. My parents weren't as happy about it as I was. My brother and some of our friends were making wooden swords, I wanted to make something that would be an actual weapon. No I wasn't going to use it but in my 8 year old mind I figured that if I were going to make something for show then it should actually work.
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Luke Zechman
Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 278
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Posted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hello everyone! I don't post here much, but I am on here everyday reading and learning. This thread in particular has inspired me to make a weapon. I intend to continue to make these things, and have been collecting materials and tools to better facilitate my inherent need to make dangerous objects. I would like to thank the people that visit this site for divulging information on processes and techniques. I see this site as an awesome resource for the things that make me tick.
The following club was made from a solid hickory limb that cured for two years on my front porch. When I started it was 19 inches long and about 3 inches in diameter, and still had the bark. I did not use any powered tools to make this club. I took me almost a week to shape it, working 2 to 3 hours a day. I have since acquired a lathe!!!! I used a hatchet, wood rasp, several wood files, a sure form, sand paper and a gouge. Stained it, then soaked it in linseed oil for 5 day, applied the steel tacks, then smeared it with bees wax. Enjoy!
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Bennison N
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Posted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: |
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That's really nice, Luke.
I have something very similar in look to your club, but made from steel and coated in rubber in the boot of my car! Haha!
I like your wooden one better.
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" - Confucius
अजयखड्गधारी
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Luke Zechman
Location: Lock Haven Pennsylvania Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 278
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Posted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Thank you very much! I made this club for behind the one bar that I work at. But now that it is done, I don't want to part with it. The good news is that the owner of the bar liked it, and "commissioned" me to make him one. Now that I have a lathe, I will be able to do it for a reasonable price.
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Jeremy V. Krause
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Posted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Stephen,
I like your club VERY much! It looks really great. Along with historical A&A I have a thing for attractive pieces of wood. I bet you could do amazing things with more specimens of fine samples of wood lengths.
Jeremy
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Justin Thompson
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Posted: Sat 25 Jul, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I couldn't decide what exactly to post here, so I'm just putting up the link to my whole gallery.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v444/hasanb...s/?start=0
However here are some comparison pics, showing the quality I used to produce, and the quality I currently produce.
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Stephen Renico
Location: Detroit Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 51
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Posted: Sun 26 Jul, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy V. Krause wrote: | Hi Stephen,
I like your club VERY much! It looks really great. Along with historical A&A I have a thing for attractive pieces of wood. I bet you could do amazing things with more specimens of fine samples of wood lengths.
Jeremy |
Thanks, Jeremy.
I've done quite a few wooden weapons over the last couple of years:
Ball headed war club:
Gunstock club with iron blade:
"Oni" cudgel:
Ipe walking stick:
Beech "War Shillelagh" (modeled after Monk McGinn's club in "Gangs of New York")
"The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting by fools." -Thucydides.
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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Posted: Sat 16 Jan, 2010 4:42 am Post subject: The Wooden Weapons Thread. |
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Here is an intimidating Hawaiian spear which consists of a blue marlin bill with shark teeth tied to it and joined to a shaft. This beautiful piece of art is 6.5 feet long, the bill measures almost 2 feet long, the wood used for this specific item is koa while rooster feathers decorate the beginning of the bill and it has woven loops of fibres called olona after a Hawaiian shrub with the same name, the bark of which was valued as a source of strong, durable fibre.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Harry J. Fletcher
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Posted: Sat 16 Jan, 2010 12:40 pm Post subject: Wooden Weapons |
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Wait til I get my woody!
To Study The Edge of History
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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Posted: Thu 08 Apr, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: The Wooden Weapons Thread. |
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Maori battle axe, 1864-1866. This Tewhatewha (wooden battle axe) was brought back from New Zealand by Major Charles Shuttleworth, who served with the 68th Light Infantry during the Second Maori War. In 1863 the 68th Light Infantry sailed from Burma for New Zealand, where the Maoris had gone to war to try to halt the spread of the British settlements. The 68th Light Infantry fought in 1864 at both Gate Pah and Te Ranga, where Sergeant John Murray was awarded the Victoria Cross.
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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