form of seax in Bernicia ca.500 AD? -- myArmoury.com

Dean Whitlock

Hello,

I'm researching for a book idea. (I write young adult fantasy and try to be historically accurate.) Bernicia, the northern part of Northumbria, was just being invaded/settled by the Anglo-Saxons (primarily Angles) in the period 450-500 AD. Can anyone give me an idea of the shape and size of the typical seax in use by those peoples at that time? Was the angle-backed seax developed by then? Were blades much longer than 10 inches by then? Would they tend to be straight-edged or curved?

Thanks very much,
Dean

Jeroen Zuiderwijk · Industry Professional

Dean Whitlock

Joel Chesser · Posted: Tue 28 Apr, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject:

Here are a couple of small knives that were excavated from the Roman site of Vindolanda on Hadrians wall in Northumbria. They may be a early by 100 years or so. I don't remember exact dates on these pieces. I thought they might help.

Jeroen Zuiderwijk · Industry Professional

Dean Whitlock · Posted: Wed 29 Apr, 2009 9:42 am Post subject:

Thank you Joel and Jeroen both. The photos are very helpful. It appears that small knives then follow the same trend as now in that there are lots of styles based on utility, personal preference, and what the smith knew how to make. Do you know if the same is true for the dagger or fighting knife? I'm wondering what an Anglo-Saxon fighter of that era might have carried to supplement his spear or sword, if anything, since the seax evolved somewhat later? Interesting, though, that some of the knives in Joel's second photo are seax-like in form. I wonder, too, if they are Romano-British? Joel, did you take those pics in the museum at Vindolanda?

Thanks again,
Dean

Jeroen Zuiderwijk · Industry Professional

Kirk Lee Spencer

Dean Whitlock · Posted: Thu 30 Apr, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject:

Jeroen and Kirk,

Thanks very much, these pictures and your comments are very helpful. They make me wonder where the name "seax" originated and why. In other places I have seen photos of knives called seaxes that did not have what I would have called the typical pattern (that is, not the broken-back sax and similar). There is obviously an evolution going on over this time period.

Jeroen, it was also useful to see the dart points and francisca. If not arrowheads, what sort of darts would these be? And the francisca seems early, but I suppose a fighting ax would be appropriate to almost any age, since the ax is so prevalent a farm tool. I will have to do more research on them. They are seldom if ever found among Anglo-Saxon grave goods in England, from what I have read.

Thanks again. Your depth of knowledge and devotion to the topic is very impressive!
Dean

Jeroen Zuiderwijk · Industry Professional

Joel Chesser · Posted: Fri 01 May, 2009 9:30 am Post subject:

Dean Whitlock · Posted: Fri 01 May, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject:

Dean Whitlock · Posted: Fri 01 May, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject:

David Huggins · Posted: Sat 02 May, 2009 6:16 am Post subject: Seax Bernicea

Hi Dean

There was a francisca found in Mound 1 at Sutton Hoo, albeit later then the 5th century. It may be possible that the narrow socketed 'dart' heads that Joroen posted may well be javelin heads as he postulated, but many A-S spear heads including long bladed ones also have very narrow sockets.

regards
Dave

Dean Whitlock · Posted: Sat 02 May, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Seax Bernicea

David Huggins · Posted: Sat 02 May, 2009 11:52 pm Post subject: Seax Bernicea

Hi Dean,

This title 'Ancient Weapons In Britain' by Logan Thompson may of assistance to you in your research.

http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/42408//Location/Oxbow

best wishes
Dave

Dean Whitlock · Posted: Sun 03 May, 2009 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Seax Bernicea

Jeroen Zuiderwijk · Industry Professional

David Huggins · Posted: Mon 04 May, 2009 2:02 am Post subject: seax Bernicea

Hi Dean,

Incidently in this months issue of 'Skirmish' magazine is an article on the war bow, or more significantly arrowheads from the early medieval period and the author comments on an explanation of the importance of the socket for dating arrowheads found in the British archeological excavations.

He states that until the Vikings came to British Isles virtually all metal arrow heads made by the people of Britain had a tang behind the blade portion to fit the arrow shaft, a practice common amongst the Saxons and Romano-British, but that heads fitted with a tang were common across Europe. It is widely believed that heads with sockets found in Britain were from the Viking period and after.

Now wether the Anglo-Saxons used the bow and arrow for the specific purpose of war is another question!

best
Dave

Robert P. Wimmers · Industry Professional

Hi Dean,

There is evidence for large knives from La Tene to the middle ages. These could be as large as 10 # or over. A knife that size is great for carving a roast, slicing bread and as a (backup) weapon in a tight spot. But a shorter knife of 6 # will do all that as well. The saex as depicted quickly grew into a rather large blade, ending up near to a single edged sword. Not al that practical for mundane use. But it starts of as a pretty mundane large utilitarian knife around the time of your story. There were several shapes around at the time, some very like a modern kitchen knife, others with droppoints and long (Jeroen has a theory on weighted by pouring in pewter to set the blade in the handle) handles. So I suppose knives called saex and what I have seen refered to as Messer (which is german plural for a knife) are generally fighting knives, good for slashing.
There is a lot more to a fighting knife then length, mind you, balance of the knife, as any knifemaker will tell you, is really what counts. You may want to use that in your story, the feel of a knife is very important. This makes smithing and grinding a proper fighting knife an art. The need for balance becomes less as the movements become less subtile, which is the case in plain slashing like with a machete. As the knife gets bigger, there will be more weight in the forward portion of the blade anyway.