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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Request for messer pictures Reply to topic
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Sat 14 Jun, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Grassmann wrote:
Here's one of my own, not shown in the thread linked above:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/65/12...653136.jpg


Hi Peter,

Thanks for posting this picture. It looks like a very nice messer...is there any way you could post more detailed pictures of it? Particularly of the guard/hilt/pommel/nagel?

Also, do you know offhand any measurements? blade length, and width/thickness near the guard and point?

After i finish the current messer I am working on, I'd like to try to repro something very similar to your antique (the slender, straight pointed variety).

Thanks,
Dustin
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Ivan Curic




Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Joined: 05 Jan 2007

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 29 Jul, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's one from Lutel:


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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

A Grosse Messer, circa 1500
Appearing in a Christie's auction catalog, October 1994.



 Attachment: 37.63 KB
messer1500.jpg
Grosse Messer, circa 1500
Copyright Christie's London


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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
A Grosse Messer, circa 1500
Appearing in a Christie's auction catalog, October 1994.


That stepped back is interesting. It may look odd to some, but there are some knives with similar features.

Happy

ChadA

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Terry Crain




Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Joined: 29 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr, 2009 10:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I now own that Lutel Messer and I can tell you it is sweet!

I also picked up what I believe is an old Windlass Messer which is not half bad. Quite solid.

Now if my Albion Knecht would just get here...

Love those messers!!!

Terry Crain
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Donal Grant

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Fri 10 Apr, 2009 11:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Terry Crain wrote:
I also picked up what I believe is an old Windlass Messer which is not half bad.


I really regret not ever buying one of those.

Quote:
Now if my Albion Knecht would just get here...


I really wish I could afford one for myself! That's one at the top of my wish list.

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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone have any info on the following messer (this image was posted in this thread previously):



Anything is helpful, but I'm specifically looking for info on dimensions.

Thanks,
Dustin
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
Does anyone have any info on the following messer (this image was posted in this thread previously):


It looks as though the photo came from a Hermann Historica auction. You may be able to find that item in their archives.

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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

Posts: 264

PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
Does anyone have any info on the following messer (this image was posted in this thread previously):


It looks as though the photo came from a Hermann Historica auction. You may be able to find that item in their archives.




Thank you!

Yes, i found it (I can't link directly to it, due to the nature of the auction site), but here is the info available in case anyone else is interested (you should be able to search by the lot number & auction - 3670, auction 48, to find it easily):

Quote:

Lot Nr.3670

Bauernwehr,

süddeutsch um 1500. Schlanke Rückenklinge. Gegratete Parierstange mit spitz zulaufenden Enden und eingestecktem Parierknebel. Breite, gelochte Angel mit Resten von Messing-Hohlnieten. Geschnittener Knauf. Länge 85 cm.


Google translation:
Quote:
Southern Germany around 1500. Lean back blade. Ridged hilt with pointed ends and inserted Parierknebel. Wide, perforated Angel with remnants of brass rivets. Cut knob. Length 85 cm.


It's interesting that they call this a Bauernwehr. Care to discuss why this designation, and not the more obvious (what i'd expect, at least) "lange messer"?


Thanks,
Dustin
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 20 Apr, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
Yes, i found it (I can't link directly to it, due to the nature of the auction site), but here is the info available in case anyone else is interested (you should be able to search by the lot number & auction - 3670, auction 48, to find it easily)


Here's the direct link to the object in question: Hermann Historica Auction 48 - Lot 3670


Dustin R. Reagan wrote:
It's interesting that they call this a Bauernwehr. Care to discuss why this designation, and not the more obvious (what i'd expect, at least) "lange messer"?


The issue of terminology is discussed in this very topic, above. Also of interest, may be this other topic: Messer, Bauerwehr, Hauswehr?



 Attachment: 14.62 KB
36670.jpg
© Hermann Historica

 Attachment: 7.08 KB
36670_b.jpg
© Hermann Historica

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Matthew Stagmer
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Location: Maryland, USA
Joined: 23 Jan 2008

Posts: 493

PostPosted: Thu 21 Apr, 2011 6:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
A Grosse Messer, circa 1500
Appearing in a Christie's auction catalog, October 1994.


Oo That blade is speaking to me.

Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
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Michael S. Rivet





Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 101

PostPosted: Thu 21 Apr, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Commissioned a Lundemo based on that messer back in '06. Need to take some better pictures at some point.

Digging through the email I sent him, I found some additional stats on the original. Or that I claimed were from the original. I have no idea where I got them anymore, but I have the impression that the fellow who bought it at auction may have posted here or at SFI at some time in the fuzzy past.


Quote:
Weight is 585 g, balance point 325 mm from the end of the pommel (in the first third of the blade).



 Attachment: 66.28 KB
Messer Full 1.jpg


 Attachment: 120.74 KB
Hilt 1.jpg

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Mark T




PostPosted: Fri 22 Apr, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

Thanks so much for posting that ... between your messer and the one Bill Grandy originally commissioned from John, he seems to be one of the few custom makers who have not only made messers but seem to 'get' both the aesthetics, geometry, and functionality of them. Great stuff!

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Tom Kinder





Joined: 27 Nov 2008

Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2011 5:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What I would like to know is about the nagel on messers. seems to me that pretty much all the modern reproduction models attach the nagel by affixing it either by riveting or threading into a hole that is pierced through the guard and maybe through the blade too, but what about historical messers with nagel? Some of them look like they may be forged as one piece with the guard. If anyone who has seen some historical messer could chime in with what they have seen that would be great. If someone has pictures of the nagel and the guard on the opposite side of the nagel of historical messers that would be even better.

Thank you all in advance.
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John Lundemo
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Location: New Hampton, N.Y.
Joined: 03 Nov 2005

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PostPosted: Sat 23 Apr, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tom Kinder wrote:
What I would like to know is about the nagel on messers. seems to me that pretty much all the modern reproduction models attach the nagel by affixing it either by riveting or threading into a hole that is pierced through the guard and maybe through the blade too, but what about historical messers with nagel? Some of them look like they may be forged as one piece with the guard. If anyone who has seen some historical messer could chime in with what they have seen that would be great. If someone has pictures of the nagel and the guard on the opposite side of the nagel of historical messers that would be even better.

Thank you all in advance.
I believe they go through the tang in through other side of guard and then are peened. It is also keyed on on the side that sicks out, so won't twist. This sure makes for a strudy guard that will never come off even after grip has rotted away such as the period sword I went by for this messer. The pommel is also peened permenant. This is just how I do them of course.
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Mark T




PostPosted: Sun 24 Apr, 2011 4:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tom, IIRC, there is another thread here where this is discussed - possibly with a comment by Peter Johnsson on some originals ... do a search and I'm sure you'll find it (it's late here, or I'd do it for you!).
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Bram van Diemen




Location: Tilburg
Joined: 26 Oct 2010

Posts: 29

PostPosted: Tue 26 Apr, 2011 10:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just got my langmesser. I love the thing. Only have to make a scabbard for it.







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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Wed 14 Nov, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
I`am a sort of Johnny-Come-lately ,to this thread, but here`s my ,Odin Blade-swiss saber/messer,and my Arma Bohemia
-grosse messer.



 Attachment: 86.46 KB
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Karl Knisley




PostPosted: Mon 27 May, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello
I`ve got this one coming in a few days from ( mac-armour.cz ) messer/falcata/Orcrist :-)



 Attachment: 88.94 KB
P1200008.JPG


 Attachment: 87.58 KB
[ Download ]


Last edited by Karl Knisley on Mon 27 May, 2013 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 27 May, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow, very unusual but I like it! Who are Mac arms?
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