The lantern shield, does anyone have a picture of one? -- myArmoury.com

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Sun 01 Mar, 2009 11:01 pm Post subject:

Gentlemen,
Your discussion is very interesting, thanks a lot. I haven’t arrived at final decision regarding to purpose and real usage of lantern shields yet. I think it was unconventional equipment for unconventional warfare. Let us say, the Medieval Special Forces used the lantern shields. It could be very useful for assassinations, night raids especially when you need to light up the enemy’s siege machines or powder kegs and etc.
Here I attached two more pictures with Russian Lantern shields. Russian chronics say that those shields used during the defense of cities and castles. There are a lot of pictures of these shields but I’ve never seen the real one.

Viktor Chudinov · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 12:47 am Post subject:

Those sure do look strange. Are they some kind of interpretation drawings?

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 1:10 am Post subject:

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 1:49 am Post subject:

Viktor Chudinov wrote

Lafayette C Curtis · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 2:36 am Post subject:

And how is the hidden source of fire supposed to touch off the enemy's materiel? Would the raiders toss their shields into the pile and then leave without their protection? Most likely they'd need some means of transfer, anyway--that is, a firebrand of torch--and it's more practical to just carry unlighted torches altogether and light them from the fires that one could almost be sure of finding in the enemy's camp.

Remember, too, that medieval and Renaissance lanterns weren't kerosene lamps. Their light came from candles--and not very large candles at that. Such candles would probably gutter out when taken out of the lantern, and even if not they might not really be large enough to light anything significant.

Last but not least, if you're not convinced by the "absence of evidence" argument, then I'm even less convinced by the "missing manuals" idea; considering that none of the surviving manuals that I know of (and there's a fair number of them) mention the lantern shield, what's the chance of any of the missing manuals having anything to say about its use?

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 3:12 am Post subject:

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 7:00 am Post subject:

A source of light for a night raid ? Maybe, but a very weak one I would think ? But with an oil lamp and some sort of mirror reflector maybe not too bad ? Night watch patrol light also might be useful ?

The shield might help the holder preserve his night vision and ruin the night vision of an opponent at night or in a dark place.

We are today very much used to seeing portable light and the surprise effect today would be small unless the light was extremely bright but in period a sudden source of light might be a surprise and in a pitch black situation where the eyes are completely adapted to the dark a very weak source of light might still be a blinding.

As a weapon " gimmick " for a duel it seems like one of those bright ideas too far ahead of the technology to make it work.

Rich man's toy ??? Maybe not ? If enough of these where made then they must have been minimally useful !

Half joking but this sort of reminds me of a primitive form of " tactical " light like the one's used on today's firearms by Police or military tactical units.

Vrin Thomas · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject:

Oleg

It looks to me like those image are shield/gauntlet/blade combination weapons, but I am not sure they are true "lantern shields". It looks like the small cruciform shape at the top is a view portal and not a lantern. Both images have the figures looking through this opening (at least from a graphic standpoint).

It would be nice to hear more about them, maybe even about the sources these are from.

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 10:47 pm Post subject:

Vrin,

You are right; those are not the true lantern shields. As far as I know first picture is from the Mister Viskovatov’s “Description of uniform and armament of Russian State” published in XIX century. Second one is the postcard published in Soviet Union in 1980s. All sources tell that those shields were very rare and used during the sieges by defenders. Where did they take that information these source don’t tell us.

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 11:57 am Post subject:

Dear Gents,
I’ve checked my Tower of London Royal Armory catalogue and found the information on second lantern shield from the Chad Arnow’s message he sent on February 25.
According to catalogue this shield (V.16), (inside) painted with scenes from life of Camillus; Italian, mid 16th century.

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject:

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Wed 11 Mar, 2009 12:43 am Post subject:

Chad Arnow wrote.

Vince Matthews · Posted: Fri 27 Mar, 2009 8:44 pm Post subject: translation?

I've sent a messenger,help might be on the way for the translation...in the meantime, a smithy friend and myself are planning to re-create the Vienna displayed lantern shield ,or something similar (him doin' the smithy part me on armour), and have begun very prliminary design discussions.A call out to any and all about specs,funtions, layout anything would go far to help me build this, this,this..... thing.Educated guesses as well as fact are incouraged.
My personal feeling is this was a "bodygaurd" type weapon as eluded to in one of the previuos posts.It seems to me it is made to be used in confined or semi cinfined places such as backstreets and corridors ,perhaps even indoors? Imagine a noble out strolling at night and having a "bodygaurd" wearing one of these. Yes, I know it's just the opposite of the documented story but it seems this particular piece and other similarly elaborate pieces would have been out of reach of the average or even perhaps above average men.The seemingly wronged gentleman was referred to as a noble I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong) and would be capable of arming his bodygaurds this way and use them to attack a rival.All this is of course MVHO.
By the way this smitthy friend said he's stopping by so could y'all tidy the place up a bit,and you...get yer feet off the table.

Andy C. Nystrom · Posted: Sat 28 Mar, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject:

When you and your smithy friend have a finished product I would very much like to know how the actual shield feels when worn. Is it gaudy and cumbersome as some believe or is it deceivingly functional and fairly easy to use? Also I'm curious on how bright the lantern light truly is when inserted into the shield. Also I would like to say thank you for pursuing a project like this. While I would very much like to do the same and recreate various items of interest the ability and connections are not available to me and I'm confined to my own theories and the well educated advice and opinions of the gentleman here at myArmoury.

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2009 1:10 am Post subject:

This is a picture taken by Fritz Goro in May 1944. We can see here one more lantern shield from the Worchester collection, MA, USA.

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

In 'light' of this conversation, I thought I would chime in. Jean said something that has me thinking. Now, this is just speculation, so don't ask me for a historical reference. I will put forth a modern tactical point instead...

I've been in the military (active and reserve) and in law enforcement for 21 years now. I've trained and been part of countless night operations. I won't talk about blackout drive or night vision, but I will raise a point. A few years ago, Surefire introduced a model of tactical mounted pistol light for just this purpose. The main flashlight has a pair of low output colored LEDs called 'nav lights' mounted below the main bezel. These lights are to be used to negotiate terrain / obstacles during night operations in situations where a bright white light would ruin your night vision of give away your position. We do the same thing with small helmet red/blue LEDs in the Army. They only provide a few feet of illumination, but in total darkness when your eyes have adjusted, these small colored LEDs provide great lighting to move, see, and read by. And, best of all, they are attached to your weapon.

It's possible that the lantern shields could be used to dazzle an opponent, but I believe that this would be a secondary goal - as engaging an enemy would probably put out the light. Swing around a candle or small oil lamp in one of these, and I could almost promise that it would blow out immediately.

The primary goal seems like it would simply be a tactical device readily available to see in the dark - probably invented by town guards and adopted for other uses by civilian and criminal elements.

Vince Matthews · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2009 9:45 am Post subject: Time pic

Nice pic Oleg,
Is there any commentary with that photo ??

Oleg Naumov · Posted: Tue 31 Mar, 2009 1:48 am Post subject:

Vince,
Unfortunately there were no any comments with that photo. As far as I know that museum was situated in the Worchester pressed steel company building in 1944. The friend of mine confirmed that museum still exists.