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Enlil O. Ball
Location: West Virginia Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Mon 07 Jun, 2004 11:18 am Post subject: Roman Infantry Scutum Designs |
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As I was just finishing putting together my authentic Roman centurions armor collection, I stumbled onto one of my worst problems. As a centurion in the XIX Legio Germanica, I train and fight with my men, but my equipment differs much from them. As my soldiers wear lorica segementa, I wear a custom made centurion breastplate in brass, with leather decoration and lion hinges. As they battle away with their awesome gladii made by Albion, I have my spatha designed by Matt Amt of Legio XX (Victorious Black Eagles) Any way, my last piece of the set is the scutum, and following Amt's advice, I am going to get an infantry scutum, not a calvary scutum as sometimes depicted. However, since my equipment and armor is so expensive, having a regular designed scutum will not do. My question to you all is, do any of you know of, or have a picture that you wouldnt mind me having so that I could custom make my own scutum?
I tried looking online for some pictures of good looking scutums. Sadly I found little. The only decent scutum I found was the Dura Europas shield. However, the time period is off (Dura Europas is around 250 AD) and when people see that shield, they think of that...
Again, if any one has a picture of a good looking shield with wings and thunder bolts so it fits in around 80-160 AD time period, please let me know.
Pictures scanned for me by Andrew Brozyna
http://www.redrampant.com
 Attachment: 24.89 KB
Shield from Trajan's Column.
Attachment: 30.13 KB
Shield from Trajan's Column.
Attachment: 30.53 KB
Shield from Trajan's Column.
Attachment: 30.7 KB
Promising? It looks like a higher decorated shield then most. Does any one know exactly what time period this one is?
Enlil O. Ball
XIX Legio Germanica Centurio
Http://www.geocities.com/XIX_Legion
Si Vas Pacem, Para Bellum
Last edited by Enlil O. Ball on Wed 09 Jun, 2004 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 07 Jun, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Enlil, this is another item that we're going to be working on in the fall for Albion . Anything you track down on this or that
anyone has on the topic would be eagerly viewed by us .
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Enlil O. Ball
Location: West Virginia Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed 09 Jun, 2004 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Allan Senefelder wrote: | Hi Enlil, this is another item that we're going to be working on in the fall for Albion . Anything you track down on this or that
anyone has on the topic would be eagerly viewed by us . |
I found something Albion =0 I hope some other people start to pitch in their designs or historical information.
Enlil O. Ball
XIX Legio Germanica Centurio
Http://www.geocities.com/XIX_Legion
Si Vas Pacem, Para Bellum
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 09 Jun, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Enlil , any documentation on wheather the designs on the shield shown in relief were actually pieces attached to the front
of the shield and therefore have depth or if showing the designs on the shield in relief was just the sculptors way of
illustrating what may have been painted on the front of it ?
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Enlil O. Ball
Location: West Virginia Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed 09 Jun, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: Scutum Designs |
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| Allan Senefelder wrote: | Enlil , any documentation on wheather the designs on the shield shown in relief were actually pieces attached to the front
of the shield and therefore have depth or if showing the designs on the shield in relief was just the sculptors way of
illustrating what may have been painted on the front of it ? |
Trajan's Column
"The scenes depict mostly the Roman army in military activities such as setting out to battle and engaging the Dacians, as well as constructing fortifications and listening to the emperor's address. In all, 2500 figures are shown. The emperor Trajan, depicted realistically (not superhuman), makes 59 appearances among his troops."
The column was finished in 113, so the shield would be the correct time period for me. I have found no documentated proof about the shields it depicts, but by 113, the boss and unicorn was no longer made out of wood, and the unicorn itself was only paint. Only the boss retained depth, but in order to show the shield design you have one of two choices with the depth, having the design stick out like in these pictures, or have them pushed in.
IMHO, the shield had a metal boss and trimming, leather covering the front of the shield, and had an awesome paint job.
Enlil O. Ball
XIX Legio Germanica Centurio
Http://www.geocities.com/XIX_Legion
Si Vas Pacem, Para Bellum
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 09 Jun, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Great ! Thanks Enlil . Any information on things Roman helps ( we have two copies of The Armour Of Imperial Rome but
it doesn't cover everything and alot of research has been done since ) .
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Enlil O. Ball
Location: West Virginia Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon 14 Jun, 2004 5:02 pm Post subject: Sigh... |
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Damn, every time I think I get someplace, I just get shut right down. The design above is already in use by the Legio
III Cyrenaica up in New England. Not that we cant use it, they dont own it or anything, and I'm sure they wouldnt mind, I just need to get my own design...
Oh and another note, I now have information from a "reliable source" that the scutums of soldiers and centurions would be the same, but the centurion may of had plating of silver or brass (gold if he was really hitting it good) on top of his design to designate his higher place in the 60 ranks of centurions, which by the way, does any one know?....
Enlil O. Ball
XIX Legio Germanica Centurio
Http://www.geocities.com/XIX_Legion
Si Vas Pacem, Para Bellum
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Enlil O. Ball
Location: West Virginia Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue 15 Jun, 2004 7:46 pm Post subject: Another Scutum Design |
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A bit late for me, any comments on it...
Picture scanned for me by Andrew Brozyna
http://www.redrampant.com
Attachment: 37.22 KB
Around 100 A.D.
Enlil O. Ball
XIX Legio Germanica Centurio
Http://www.geocities.com/XIX_Legion
Si Vas Pacem, Para Bellum
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Andrew Zander
Location: Silverdale, WA Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun 27 Jun, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Allan Senefelder wrote: | Great ! Thanks Enlil . Any information on things Roman helps ( we have two copies of The Armour Of Imperial Rome but
it doesn't cover everything and alot of research has been done since ) . |
Here is a scan of an image from Trajan's column
www.andrewzander.com/roman1.jpg
it's not the best image, but you can see a little detail on the scutums. This is from "The Roman Imperial Army" 3rd ed., plate XXVIII
Another image is an illustration from "Guardians of the Roman Empire". This book is about the praetorian guard, and thescutums are of the rounded type, but i thought the image might be useful.
www.andrewzander.com/roman2.jpg
I hope this proves to be of some use.
Andrew
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Andrew Zander
Location: Silverdale, WA Joined: 18 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun 27 Jun, 2004 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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also, according to "Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome" from Oxford, the design on the scutums were painted.
Andrew
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Enlil O. Ball
Location: West Virginia Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed 21 Jul, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for those pictures. I'll see what I can extract from them, but I think im going to have to be alittle creative in scutum designs...
Enlil O. Ball
XIX Legio Germanica Centurio
Http://www.geocities.com/XIX_Legion
Si Vas Pacem, Para Bellum
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This is a standard topic