looking for info on a rapier -- myArmoury.com

Daniela Serna · Posted: Tue 08 Jun, 2004 9:45 am Post subject: looking for info on a rapier

hi!!!

i'm looking for some info regarding a what i believe is a rapier

this sword was given to my father by a relative of his mother, borned in Higueras N.L. a town in northern Mexico, founded in 1714 by Cap. Diego Gonzales Ochoa, who's grandfather was borned in Moron de la Frontera Sevilla, Spain. and traveled to Mexico in the Conquest Period.

The sword is signed "Solingen" and has an inscription on the blade with the words "NO ME SAQUES SIN RAZON NO ME ENFUNDES SIN HONOR" translated "Don´t remove me without reason don´t contain me without honor" and some floral motives all around the blade. it its 41 inches in all it´s lenght, 36.5 only blade and 1.4 inch. width. it has a guard, but i believe is missing a piece of it. Also is very rusty.

my theory it´s that the sword was manufactured in Solingen then brought to Spain where it was inscribed and later traveled with the Gonzales family to Mexico during the conquest of the Americas, until it ended up in Higueras N.L. wich is still a very small town.

I´m looking for the origin and date of the sword, if someone has some info regarding the rapier, please be kind to help my research...
thanks!!!!

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Hi Dan I think your gonna have to post some pictures for folks here to look at for them to really be able to tell you much about this sword .

Daniela Serna · Posted: Tue 08 Jun, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject: more on the rapier

here are some pics.

just consider the sword is very rusty, i´m tryibg to get it clean but I am afraid to deteriorate the signature and the inscriptions.

there´s a close up of the signature is very blurry, and actually it took me like a year to get the word Solingen out of it.

Allan Senefelder · Industry Professional

Hi Dan . Well near as I can tell what you have is similar to a sword I used to own and one in a local historical home here
in Upstate New York . I've also seen several of this type of sword in various auction catalogs . Loosely speaking i've seen these identified as "Mexican broad swords " . They seem to consist of an older blade ( the one i had and the one in the
historical home were made in barcelona ) that has been rehilted in the Americas by local craftsmen . Some of the hilts
are quite well made and others are built from pieces of other sword hilts . Mine had a very elaborate almost basket type gaurd well the one in the historical home was a D-gaurd , the bar being made from a cut down three bar type gaurd
in brass . Your guess on the origins of the blade certainly sound pluasible . Perhaps someone here can shed more light on this sword . Pretty cool that you have the history/provenance of this piece .

E.B. Erickson · Industry Professional

Hello Daniela,
The blade is a pretty typical Spanish broadsword; the type was in use from the last half of the 1600s right up until around 1800.

The guard is probably from the first half of the 1800s, and probably reflects rehilting of the old family blade for use in that time period.

It's nice to see swords with a family history!

--ElJay

Daniela Serna · Posted: Wed 09 Jun, 2004 8:48 am Post subject: thanks!!!

thanks for your feedback!!!!

but let me get it straight, the blade on it´s origins could be considered a rapier? before the spanish intervention of the inscription and the mexican rehilting, or do you think it was manufactured in Spain even thought the "Solingen" signature? and then traveled on to Mexico, and ended up in our hands. Because as i was reading the article on the historical swords, the signatures on the blades produced in Solingen where pretty much the initials of the actual person who manufactured them, not only the word "Solingen".

Other than that, the info you gave me works perfect to me thanks!!!

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

Could you post a pic showing the whole blade? It is hard to determine the type from a couple close-ups...

Daniela Serna · Posted: Wed 09 Jun, 2004 10:47 am Post subject: whole blade

hi!

here´s the pic of the whole blade, I´m trying hard to get the signature clear enough, but don´t seem to be working, also i´ve read that it isn´t a good idea to get the blade cleaned, so... in the first pictured posted (i know its pretty blurry) but you can see the "n" and the "g" , the word is handwritten and cursive unlike the spanish inscription on the back, all capitals and made by mold.

i hope the picture works for you, and have some info you can share with me...

thanks!!!!

Daniela Serna · Posted: Thu 10 Jun, 2004 2:43 pm Post subject: more on the blade

hi everyone!

again i´m asking for your help, because i made a new discovery... on the back of the blade, there is another inscription with the same handwritten cursive writing, i´m having trouble understanding the words, so i took a picture and above made some drawings following the shapes of the letters, if anyone has some idea on what the word refers to, please be kind to tell me, it´s "Solingen" in one side, then on the back, two lines composing two words? also on that side, there are some cannon drawings.

thanks!