Naval Officer's Sword -- myArmoury.com

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 12:56 pm Post subject: Naval Officer's Sword

Okay, last night I was in full panic mode trying to get my dress whites ready for the change of command ceremony at my ship today. I had all the pieces I needed and my uniform was cleaned and ironed, but I had never worn it in full dress with full medals instead of ribbons before. I realized I had no idea how the medals were supposed to be worn, so I went online to consult the Navy Uniform Regulations. As with all Navy documents it was next to worthless, but while I was searching for information on medals I came across the requirements for the Officer's Dress Sword, and I was surprised to find this quote

84. SWORD (Officers)

a. The sword shall have a cut and thrust blade, from 22 inches to 36 inches long, half basket hilt, and fit in a scabbard of plain black grain leather or synthetic material presenting the leather appearance.

b. Sword, sword belt and sword knot are prescribable for all Navy commissioned officers on active duty (except chaplains) in the rank of Lieutenant Commander and above. The sword is optional for Lieutenants and below.

What surprised me is that there is no requirement to carry that ridiculous decorative wall hanger pseudo saber that all the officers have, and that instead they could carry anything that met the above criteria. It may just be me, but it seems like a schianova or possibly even some scottish baskethilts would fit those requirements. What I am wondering is if any of the people on this forum with military experience ever carried or knew an officer who carried a sword besides the standard issue one. I will ask some of the officers on my boat the same question, but none of them are really interested in swords, so I doubt very much they will have any information for me. Thanks for any Info you all may have. By the way, sorry if this is the wrong forum to put this in. If it is more appropriate to be moved to the off-topic forum than by all means please do.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:04 pm Post subject:

Most of the Officers I knew had no interest in swords, really no interest in anything other than furthering their careers.

I never saw one of them use anything other than the standard issue cerimonial sword. Even if they could have I doubt if they would have wanted to be seen as that much of an "individual". Not good for career advancement you know.

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:11 pm Post subject:

Sadly that is exactly the same sort of thing I see every day. But we do have a few JO's who are just as disgruntled as we dirty blue shirts that I might actually be able to talk into doing this if we ever again have the occasion to wear full dress uniforms (probably not until the NEXT change of command).

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:30 pm Post subject:

By the way, I never did find what I was looking for, and showed up with my medals and ribbons reversed Big Grin

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:31 pm Post subject:

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:33 pm Post subject:

I noticed my mistake when I was still about 100 yards away and could see everyone else's uniforms, and more than a few "helpful" people pointed it out to me once I arrived. Luckily we had to be there 2 hours before the actual ceremony, more than enough time to change them around.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:39 pm Post subject:

Not to stray too far off topic..............

I once showed up for inspection with my Rifle and Pistol expert medals in front of my Navy achievment Medal. As the Captain proceeded down my file he stopped and said "Petty Officer Kelly those medals don't take priority over the others". I responded with "They do to me sir".

I was always too much of an individual.

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject:

There really is nothing more satisfying than giving a smart ass reply to superior, especially in a situation like that.

Just to keep this post sword related here are some pics of the atrocity they wear (I just really hate the sword....)
The first is the strange way it is worn on the uniform ( i guess you could draw it from behind your back this way) and the second is a close up of the version offered by Wilkinson.

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 2:01 pm Post subject:

If you closely examine the belt assembly you'll notice that it's the same system that was used in the 19th century, and was originally designed for cavalry troops. When mounted the scabbard hangs down by the suspension straps, this allows for ease of draw when mounted. When afoot the scabbard is hooked onto the belt as seen in the photo. This allows for ease of transport, otherwise the scabbard would drag on the ground.

This was the standard for the entire military during the 19th century, they've just never changed it.

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 2:05 pm Post subject:

Interesting. Didn't know the Navy used to have cavalry. Razz

Shawn Mulock · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 2:58 pm Post subject: Commonwealth Officers.

I have seen contemporary examples of Officers in the Commonwealth, specifically Highland Regiment Officers and Senior NCOs carrying Basket Hilts. Big Grin

As for Medals being backwards... That is why you show up two hours early.

Somebody HAS to have their decorations backwards.

103.23.3

A minimum of one member of said parade unit shall be required to have certified decorations placed in obverse or reverse order and require rearrangement. This minimum must be presented to the officer presiding over pre-event activities to ensure the git has something that will keep him out of trouble until said time as the most senior NCO can have made arrangements such as the presiding officer cannot bugger up.

WTF?!

Björn Hellqvist · myArmoury Alumni

Robert Denbigh · Posted: Mon 15 Sep, 2003 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Commonwealth Officers.