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Michael Curl
Location: Northern California, US Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 487
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 Posted: Wed 07 Jan, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: Nebenhut |
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I can't find any information on the Nebenhut guard for longsword. How would it be used? I can only think of it behing moved into the pflug.
E Pluribus Unum
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Wed 07 Jan, 2009 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Michael,
Have you read the Sigmund Ringeck commentaries? There is an entire section dedicated to the techniques of this guard. As a general overview, its the position you finish in if you make a full, diagonal oberhau. Most of the techniques from here are used to defend against a strike from above, where you strike upwards with the short edge into the oncoming attack to deflect it or otherwise bind against it.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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Ken Berry
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Fighting with the German Longsword by Christian Tobler discusses all the guards including Nebenhut. Good book easy to follow.
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M. Eversberg II
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 8:29 am Post subject: |
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I have heard that book is out of date from a few HEMA guys.
M.
This space for rent or lease.
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| M. Eversberg II wrote: | I have heard that book is out of date from a few HEMA guys.
M. |
While there are things in it that are out of date, it is still one of the few good overviews of the Liechtenauer tradition. To this date I haven't seen any book come close.
HistoricalHandcrafts.com
-Inspired by History, Crafted by Hand
"For practice is better than artfulness. Your exercise can do well without artfulness, but artfulness is not much good without the exercise.” -anonymous 15th century fencing master, MS 3227a
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M. Eversberg II
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I might invest in a copy, then, as a sidelong to Codex Wallerstein (when I can afford one D
M.
This space for rent or lease.
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Herbert Schmidt
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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The Hut you get in after a diagonal cut would be the Wechselhut to be extra correct.
The Nebenhut is held on your left or right side with the point showing backwards, pommel held more or less on your hip. The long edge is showing down.
The books of Tobler are good, I recommend the book of Lindholm.
Both are not really up to date any more but more than sufficient to start with.
There is another book that is up to date, but only in german...
best wishes
Herbert
www.arsgladii.at
Historical European Martial Arts
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Greg Coffman
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Instead of thinking along the lines of, "how would it be used," think of the guards as natural positions the sword will be in from time to time. You can start in nebenhut, end in nebenhut, or be in a state of transition from one position to another or one cut to another. Generally speaking, all movements you make with the sword, especially cuts, are transitions from a guard, through a guard, and to a guard. For example, you can strike from nebenhut up to ochs. From ochs you can strike back down with a zornhau back into nebenhut and finish by brining the sword up to vom tag. I recommend practicing by doing transitions between all the guards you know. You should generally be able to get to any guard, from any guard. Likewise, you should be able to do just about any cut from any position. But it takes practice and familiarity...it takes time.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
-Hebrews 4:12
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Jason G. Smith
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| Posted: Thu 08 Jan, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Herbert Schmidt wrote: | The Hut you get in after a diagonal cut would be the Wechselhut to be extra correct.
The Nebenhut is held on your left or right side with the point showing backwards, pommel held more or less on your hip. The long edge is showing down.
The books of Tobler are good, I recommend the book of Lindholm.
Both are not really up to date any more but more than sufficient to start with.
There is another book that is up to date, but only in german...
best wishes
Herbert |
Well, actually, to be *extra* correct, Joachim Meyer called the left-side variant wechselhut, and it isn't done (to my knowledge) with the point back. This crosses the hands, which is an inherently weaker position. Most, if not al the resources I'm aware of place Ringeck's nebenhut on the left side, point forward à la Fiore's dente di zenghiar.
Caveat - I'm a Fiore practitioner who first studied Liechtenauer before "converting.' Some of my information may be out of date, though I try to keep up...
Best,
Les Maîtres d'Armes
Member of the
Chivalric Fighting Arts Association
... above all, you should feel in your conscience that your quarrel is good and just. - Le Jeu de la Hache
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