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Herbert Schmidt




Location: Austria / Europe
Joined: 21 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Dec, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Curved sword in the near east         Reply with quote

Just a question that came up in a discussion: When did the curved sword in the near east appear?

I can't give you any more details regarding the area. So, please, just give me some dates and areas if you happen to know something about it.

Thanks a lot!

Herbert

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Historical European Martial Arts
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Dec, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I might be wrong but I think they became popular after the Mongol conquests, 13th century.
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Martin Erben




Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Dec, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi
The first sabers with curved blades in europe were found in Pannonia. They were made in the 7th century by the Awars.
In the islamic world, sabers with curved blades have been in use since the 9th century. The former "sabers" they used there had straight blades with two edges.
These information are from the Book"Das Schwert" by Thomas Laible.
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Herbert Schmidt




Location: Austria / Europe
Joined: 21 Mar 2004

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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 1:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you very much. I have the book myself but are looking for other sources.

thanks!

Herbert

www.arsgladii.at
Historical European Martial Arts
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Viktor Chudinov




Location: Varna, Bulgaria
Joined: 25 Dec 2008

Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Around 6-th 7-th century AD.
As much as i know it's still a matter of dispute who brought them first. The three pretendents are avars, bulgars and
magyars. It could be either one of them, or all.

I wonder...do deaf schizophrenics hear voices...
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Dec, 2008 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

But the strongly curved sword that we know as scimitar wasn't in use that early, right? I meant scimitar when i wrote that Mongols popularized it in 13th century? I know for early medieval Avar and Hungarian sabers, both of the nations are strongly bonded with Croatian history. And Mongols are too.
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

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PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Turkic peoples were already using curved swords by the time they were recruited as mercenaries and slave-soldiers into Middle Eastern Islamic armies in the 9th and 10th centuries AD. However, the Arabs, Syrians, and Persians who recruited them kept using straight swords and even armed many of their slave/mercenary/auxiliary/allied Turks with straight swords, so much that the use of straight and curved swords was often used in literature and art as a distinguishing mark between "native" and "Turk." This condition persisted until the 15th century or so, when the Ottoman conquest and domination of the Middle East made Turkish weapons fashionable and led their closer subjects to convert almost universally to curved swords.
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Henrik Zoltan Toth




Location: Hungary
Joined: 18 Feb 2007

Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 4:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think the curved sabre arrived in the Near-Easth with the oguz (f.e. seldjuks) tribes, arround by the end of the 9th Century.

Zoltán
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