[Gary Teuscher]

Anyone know what period crossbows from say the 10th-13th centuries were like - Length, width, weight, draw weight, draw length?

Have seen numerous ones on line but don't know how accurate they are.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Leo Todeschini from Tod's Stuff makes some very good replica crossbows:

http://www.todsstuff.co.uk/crossbows.php

Though most of his stuff are from later periods (especially 15th century onwards), I'm sure he has information about earlier crossbows as well. It might also be worth your while to check Ralph Payne-Gallwey's or Josef (or was it Jozef?) Alm's books on the crossbow.

[Dustin Keith]

Gary, might not be what you are looking for but I saw some very cool funcional crossbows on www.medievalcollectibles.com a few days ago. I am not nearly as knowledgable as many on this site, but it seems that the crossbow came into wide use around the 13th century, and most that I have seen depicted were maybe 30 inches long, with a very thick wooden bow, perhaps yew, that was drawn back with a double handed wench. I would imagine that the bow would have been somewhere around 25 - 30 inches wide as well.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Leo Todeschini]

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

Well, even though I want one, they're illegal here in Tasmnia But here, try this link: http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_...mp;c_id=48

[Randall Moffett]

Gary,

Sorry have been only on for brief seconds the last week as I had to grade end of term papers for my class and until Friday I had not finished!!! Hurrah I am done!

Not really much to add onto what Leo or said. As far as I know we have almost 0 existent crossbows for this period or remains of prods (bows) or tillers (arm) in Western Europe. We get an idea from perhaps literature that it was spanned by sitting down and pushing with the legs on the prod and pulling the string with the arms until the belt hook was common maybe mid to late 12th and improved further in the 13th with the stirrup but this only gives us perhaps a draw weight and not real dimensions. Anything arm powered would likely top out 250-300 pounds I assume, perhaps even 400 but the limitation here is the person using the weapon and the ability to literally lift the draw weight.

During the 13th century some big changes are happening. Either via the crusades or a diffusion of technology from Eastern Europe the composite bow worked its way west. By the 13th this was a new mainstay in military crossbows though no matter when or how it got there. Nicolle thinks it eastern based and it is interesting that many nobles and kings employ seemingly Arab, and others in their countries making these bows. This made the simple wood prod on crossbows just one of two main choices and by and large the weaker of them.

Composite bows make a much more powerful bow that is still very compact. Likely in the late 12th or early 13th the stirrup was added to the crossbow which combined with the belt hook allowed a bit more draw weight as you could use the back and legs in a more efficient manner. These bows could get very high draw weights but the limitation is then on the man drawing it. By the late 13th you see the windlass show up. This allowed a massive increase in the power possible in these bows. A late 13th century noble, Ralph de Nesle had 3 wood crossbows, 3 composite, 2 small Genoese crossbows, 12 crossbows of horn drawn by foot (indicating that the others were drawn with a belt hook I assume) and 2 more drawn by windlass (likely very heavy poundage). So even late 13th and into the 14th the variety was huge. Simple wood prods remain common into the 14th and likely the 15th even after the composite had been around for hundreds of years and the steel bow came into being sometime mid to late 14th.

The draw length is usually about 1-2 feet. You see one foot and two foot crossbows each with their own respective bolts by the 13th. Before this you likely had the 1 foot ones as can be seen in earlier drawings/illustrations. Most of the crossbows of composite nature I have seen have 2-2 ½ foot prods.

The great crossbow or springald comes into being a mainstay by the 13th but this is a massive devise. These get to two meter bows though and are easily two times the size of a largish 1 foot crossbow.

I got to see on of the crossbow nuts supposedly roman and it looked much like a late 13th or early 14th century one I have seen. I suppose as Leo said many simple peg versions existed for a long time. One 14th century siege crossbow still exists using such a firing devise and the trigger was simply extended for added leverage. My guess is though by the late 13th a better quality crossbow would usually have the lock nut but clearly it is not the only way to do it.

For a good idea look out for a copy of Payne-Galloway’s Crossbow book. It has some flaws but it is the best overall book on Crossbows that exists. It would be nice if someone would do some new research on the subject as it needs it but the time into something like that would be a massive undertaking. Jean Lebiel’s Springalds and Great Crossbows form the RA has some info on this as well but usually 13th-15th.

Any more questions please ask.

RPM

[Gary Teuscher]

Another question. There's always the debate of wthere selfbows of heavy draw eights could penetrate mail. Seems like they could from time to time with ideal range, but were not very effective in doing so.

How about Crossbows - any knowledge of how effective these were vs mail and or plate?

[Lafayette C Curtis]

There are lots of old threads about the power of crossbows, and the ones I'm linking here are just the most obvious (and longest) examples:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=crossbow

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=crossbow

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...t=crossbow

[Gary Teuscher]

Interesting liks. I guess that much debated test with the crossbows and longbows vs armour never took place. Too bad!