[Carlos Delgado]

Hi,

I have what I believe is a cup hilt rapier.

It bears a round stamp near the base of the blade that says "Proved" and has a symbol of a trefoil (3 small leaves w/ 1 stem).

The blade itself is engraved with a rounded surface and a rounded tip.

The cup is golden in colour and is a solid half-sphere with a repeating design that is stamped into the surface with holes punched through.

The grip is wound metal.

The rear quillon is shorter than the fore quillon and ends at the edge of the cup.

Any suggestions on what kind of sword this might be and/or some good books or websites that might help me identify this sword?

Thanks,

Carlos

[Björn Hellqvist]

The "Proved" stamp indicates a weapon of possible British manufacture. Can you provide a photo or two?

[Carlos Delgado]

Here are some pics

[Don Stanko]

Without seeing it in person it is hard to guess. The blade appears to be used for sport fencing, prior to the development of electrical scoring devices. I have seen the "proved" mark on many 19th century fencing foils. It could also be decorative in function as well due to the etching on the blade. This is just a guess though. You might want to answer these questions though - is the blade tempered? if not, it was not a fighting weapon or sport weapon. was the blade ever sharpened or could it be sharpened? if not then you know that is was not made to be a weapon. and finally, test the balance, you should be able to feel what the sword was made to do, just like early estocs were made for thrusting and type XIII swords were made for broad, slashing motions. Many times the answer is right in front of you, you just didn't ask the right questions.

Hope this helps. Don

[Carlos Delgado]

Thanks for your reply, I agree that this rapier may have been used for practice purposes. I wonder, did 19th Century cup-hilt rapiers feature hand-carved cups, as in this example, or was casting of decorated hilts more common at this point? Is it possible that a rapier-era hilt was married to a 19th century blade?

I have often wondered if this was a fencing club wall-hanging or trophy following a fair amount of use. The rear quillon has been cut and the support screw that joined the cup to the rear branch is missing. Perhaps this was done to facliltate mounting the sword to a plaque, with the knuckle guard facing out. This is mere speculation, as the sword came to me in the condition you see in the photo, and this could just as easily be damage sustained in battle, practice, or abuse. The shock of a blow sufficient to break the rear quillon could have been enough to shear the support screw.

The cup hilt bears what appears to be battle or practice damage in the form of cracks and scratches. The edges and tip of the blade appear to have been ground, if the tip were intact the blade would be over a metre in length. There are a number of marks near the tip possibly indicating that it was batted away from attempted thrusts. The marks along the terzo appear only on the blade face, and appear to have been ground out of the edge (older, pre-grind damage?). There are also clash marks near the forte that continue to the blunted edge.

How can one tell if a blade is tempered? I'm a novice at identifying antique weapons, but this sword does appear to be able to bear an edge. I have noticed that the blade is fairly rigid and the balance suggests that it's primary strength was thrusting, but a strong cut is still possible due to the moderate weight of the pommel. The center is somewhat close to the hilt (an inch from the stamp), and seems to allow for a great deal of point control as well as confident blocking and cutting.

I hope this information helps.

Sincerely,
Carlos Delgado

[Don Stanko]

All of your ideas hold water. A trophy...possible but what was it before it was converted to a trophy??? It is also possible that you have a composite weapon, hard to tell from a photo. To test if a piece of metal is tempered is simple, bend it and if it comes back to its true form it is tempered, if not...Another thought, it is also possible that it is a weapon meant for stage combat. Let me know what you eventually find out.

Don

[Carlos Delgado]

The blade appears to be tempered.

I've thrown out the "stage weapon" theory due to the fact that the sword is ornately hand-carved. The sword is also too heavy for "swashbuckling". Rapiers were fitted with epee blades for use on stage and screen so actors could fence in double time. Real rapier fencing took place in single time and was less likely to thrill a crowd.

Carlos Delgado

[Don Stanko]

I must admit, I have very little knowledge of theater fencing. You say that it has some heft? Are schlager blades supposed to be more robust than a standard blade? I dont know, I never handled one before - just a guess.