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Clyde Scott
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Vassilis, thank you for the information and the videos; I've seen paradox in books, and at times, when I've shot at fifteen yards or less, but never like that. Thanks! Interesting about the firearms as well.
Glennan and Randal, thank you for the information on spine and aiming. I take it then, that medieval archers shot in the same stance, with the same muscle group being utilized, or at least they practiced that way? The videos above show archers shooting from horseback, did hobelars do this frequently? I haven't read this anywhere, and I see from the search engine here and at other forums, most people seem to think it wasn't posible; although, I guess it is possible because Mr. Loads did it in a video above, was it something that was utilized very often?
Sorry to bother you with the questions, but it's beyond the scope of my library.
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Randall Moffett
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Clyde,
Glad I could help some. There is a difference between mounted archers and hobelars, though certain academics have recently put forth the idea that hob's were being listed as mounted archers during certain periods. I am not convinced but it is possible I suppose. Usually you can assume them two different troop types.
In the deeds of Henry V there is an account of archers loosing arrows from horseback. There are a few others but these are all fairly rare. It seems that they would almost always dismount to fight excepting special situations. Hobelars are hard ones though. People have argued that they were mounted infantry. Clearly in some cases they do this but I have seen some accounts that make me think they were used in both ways as light cavalry and infantry. Some accounts of Andrew Harclay, the Earl of Carlisle (executed by the ungrateful Edward II), where these hobelars seem to be fighting mounted. IN a 1330s array order for hobelars they were required to have bascinets, plate iron gauntlets, pair of plates, a horse and a lance. It may be they were just to carry these spears around to act as mounted infantry but there is enough evidence to me to indicate that they did both and fairly often, much more often I suppose than mounted archers. In the end excepting in places like Wales, Scotland and Ireland Hobelars by the 1340s are being replaced by mounted archers.
Be very careful of online sources and video games.... some of the worst definitions I have ever seen over the years for Hobelars. Most people are guessing even in educated circles as the period accounts are not overt and little more than hints regarding how they were employed.
RPM
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Darren Tully
Location: Dublin, Ireland Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 49
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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I have a limited knowlege of archers did the English archers have smaller bows for shootig on horse back
just by looking at pictures of modern replicas and artwork from the period I'd imagine that a long bow would
be really hard to use while stradeling a horse
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Glennan Carnie
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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A shorter bow isn't necessary...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKxMq-THdO0
BTW: All the (English) bows in this video are well over 100lb
OK, so there may have been some beer involved in the making of this video. And, yes, it is irresponsible. And no, don't try this at home. Be aware though, these guys are some of the best warbow archers in the world.
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Clyde Scott
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the information Randall, especially about mounted archers vs. hobelars. That's all very interesting to know.
That video is crazy. The guy holding the target must have had nerves ouf steel; actually, the guy shooting at the target must have had nerves of steel as well, because if he had missed, he might have ended up killing his friend.
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Darren Tully
Location: Dublin, Ireland Joined: 14 Oct 2008
Posts: 49
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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That was really impressive although I couldnt believe what I was seeing when the guy was holding the target up
A 50lb bow drove an arrow deep into the gym door in my university last year I'd hate to see what ould have happened if theshot strayed to the left
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Bill Tsafa
Location: Brooklyn, NY Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 599
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Posted: Thu 16 Oct, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Darren Tully wrote: | That was really impressive although I couldnt believe what I was seeing when the guy was holding the target up
A 50lb bow drove an arrow deep into the gym door in my university last year I'd hate to see what ould have happened if theshot strayed to the left |
Those guys are crazy. There is a lot of things that can go wrong in a stunt like that. Even a 35 lb can kill you. I have seen a 35 lb bow penetrate mail from just a half draw at 5 feet. The drag on an arrow is very minimal. If maintains a lot of penetrating power even at maximum range. If you don't have armor a 35 lb'er can still stick you at even 100 feet.
No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com
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Tony Peterson
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Posted: Sat 18 Oct, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Caught one or two eps from this series on TV... intresting stuff. I will try and track them down on the world wide gift giver!
Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, and call off Christmas!
The time of heroes is dead: the christ god has killed it, leaving nothing but weeping martyrs and fear and shame.
If we die... it will be for GLORY, not gold.
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Peteris R.
Location: Latvia Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 32
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Posted: Tue 02 Jul, 2013 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Randall Moffett wrote: | Clyde,
Glad I could help some. There is a difference between mounted archers and hobelars, though certain academics have recently put forth the idea that hob's were being listed as mounted archers during certain periods. I am not convinced but it is possible I suppose. Usually you can assume them two different troop types.
In the deeds of Henry V there is an account of archers loosing arrows from horseback. There are a few others but these are all fairly rare. It seems that they would almost always dismount to fight excepting special situations. Hobelars are hard ones though. People have argued that they were mounted infantry. Clearly in some cases they do this but I have seen some accounts that make me think they were used in both ways as light cavalry and infantry. Some accounts of Andrew Harclay, the Earl of Carlisle (executed by the ungrateful Edward II), where these hobelars seem to be fighting mounted. IN a 1330s array order for hobelars they were required to have bascinets, plate iron gauntlets, pair of plates, a horse and a lance. It may be they were just to carry these spears around to act as mounted infantry but there is enough evidence to me to indicate that they did both and fairly often, much more often I suppose than mounted archers. In the end excepting in places like Wales, Scotland and Ireland Hobelars by the 1340s are being replaced by mounted archers.
Be very careful of online sources and video games.... some of the worst definitions I have ever seen over the years for Hobelars. Most people are guessing even in educated circles as the period accounts are not overt and little more than hints regarding how they were employed.
RPM |
Well, what's to say that the mounted archers didn't also do a lot of work on horseback - just not shooting. They were used for scouting, skirmishing and raiding alongside men-at-arms. Now, this is not a very well founded statement, but I think it's quite likely they took over the light cavalry role from the hobelars, which by no means requires them to shoot from horseback - they had swords, after all.
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Randall Moffett
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Posted: Tue 02 Jul, 2013 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Peteris,
No doubt they did and why not get twice the soldier for the same price. I have no question mounted archers could be used in many of those facilities. That said my guess is that mounted archers, even if more versatile, would have a different primary role and employment.
RPM
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Peteris R.
Location: Latvia Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed 03 Jul, 2013 3:53 am Post subject: |
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Oops, how did I not notice how old this thread is? Holy mother of necropost..
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