[M Enwia]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this place, I am writing a book and I'm trying to find out about what type of arms and Armour the Franks used. I got the cultrue, the social structure and agriculture down to an okay level of understanding on my part - it just the arms and armour i'm now stuck on - I have to find out what material they were made of, also what kind of method was used to produce them so I can have some idea as to the social and economic background that would have supported them - what would have been need to produce such items . . .


I guess the first step is to find out what weapons and what type of armour they used, what it was called and how it was used. Also any comments on the particular type of fighting techniques that would have been used due to weapons and armour being used would be appreciated.

I don't know how many responses I will get, don't know even if any one will even read this as there are so many other topics. To be hoenst, i'm not really sure how things work around here - first day here - so if I don't repond promptly or do something I shouldn't or not do something ishould - let me apologize in advance.

Thank you for taking the the time to read this.

regards,

M Enwia

(p.s. I would like to actually wear and learn to use the arms and armour one day - use to do archery in my Uni days, don't know how good I am now but I was okay back then).

[Johannes S.]

You might want to check out the features right here on myArmoury.com. http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_delaune.html

[Johannes S.]

And also you might want to tell us what period your looking at for the arms and armour of the 12th century are going to be very different then that of the 16th century.

[M Enwia]

I've started reading the features of myarmour.com - thanks.

The period in question is the 9th Century after the death of Charlemagne (Charles the Great).

thanks . . .

M Enwia

[Allan Senefelder]

Spangen helms ( spangen being german for plate and refeing to a familly of helmets built from plates of iron or steel
riveted either to each other or to a frame to form a bowel or conicle shape ) with or without a maille aventail ( a curtain of maille hanging down from the lower edge of the helm to protect the neck and shoulders ) were common as were
helms made from leather for poorer folks . Maille , scale , and lamellar were all used with maille being the most common of the three . Shields were gererally of round form either flat or of sightly convex with a central metal boss( dome ).
Tear drop or kite shaped shields began to appear twords the end of the period . With an early period like this information on this sort of thing is somewhat sketchy and is based on limited archelogical finds , the little bit of written record that survives and quite a bit on sculpture , carvings (often decoration on common items and in churches ) and period illustrations . Manufacture is very sketchy but I have read accounts of whole towns being involved in the proccess of making maille ( in other words it was the primary industry in the town the way cars are big in detroit ) a little later . Hope theres something usefull here . Good luck on your book .

[M Enwia]

[Allan Senefelder]

As far as shields go these items were to a certain extent disposable ( wood , sharp things chopping at wood , wood splinters and becomes useless. Reinforce the wood and it will last somewhat longer but will eventually break apart .
Usually the edge is what gives out as even with reinforcement this area is a structural weak point ) and as far as I know they were made of what was avaliable ,spruce ,oak whatever was at hand . They could be rimmed with either rawhide
or metal and also reinforced on the face with metal strapping . Illsutrations from the period do show some of the covex form of the round shield with a low central point that seems to be made by bringing the boss to a point .

Under armour ? The farther back you go the more you end up relying on period illustrations and sculpture but the further
back you go the cruder these sources get . We know that the Romans wore quilted garment called a subarmalis and
illustrations from the late 11th and early 12th centuries clearly show some sort of quilted garment beneath maille
so it stands to reason that between the Romans and the 12th century the practice of wearing some form of arming garment beneath armour ( this is actually pretty much a neccessity . maille for instance only stops the cutting edge of an
implement or to a lesser degree the point but does not absorb and of the blunt trauma generated . a sword that isn't sharp can still break your arm ) continued . The form it took is no where as certain but one would think that a quilted
garment that was at least covering the torso if not actually duplicating the coverage of the armour to go over it would make sense .

[M Enwia]

[Geoff Wood]

I'm not sure that you can rely on shields being metal strap reinforced during the period you're talking of, although there are references to it later. This link http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/shield/shield.html
is interesting for viking shields, for which there was interaction and period overlap with the Franks in the period you're interested in. I've read elsewhere that lime (linden) wood was one of those used, and I think poplar was another (in addition to those already mentioned). Since they were, as Mr Senefelder said, somewhat throw away items, they may have chosen woods that were stiff but light and (relatively) easy to work.

[M Enwia]

[M Enwia]

This should be interesting, I have found a chess piece that was from Charlemagne's court at Aachen, this allowes us to see what a Carolingian warrior would look like. http://www.chronique.com/Library/MedHistory/charlemagne.htm

whre does that leave us now!

[Steve Fabert]

The chess piece is described as "generally accepted" as typical of a warrior of Charlemagne's era, without saying what circumstance suggested that date. It certainly is not much earlier, since the rider's feet are in stirrups, which were not used in Europe for very long before Charlemagne. But the shape of the helmet is much more typical of a style that was in use in the 14th Centruy.

[M Enwia]

[M Enwia]

let me finish my sentences, I think faster then I type - sorr yabout that.

continued. so that would follow a mounted warrior would have a elongated shield as olppossed to a foot warrrior who might most probably carry a round shield . . .

[Allan Senefelder]

Shields made from steel or iron exclusively are an advent of the late 15th to early 16th centuries as far as i'm aware. Teardrop and kite shaped shields were constructed in the same fashion as round shields and were made both flat
and slightly convex . While I know that latter (13-14th) century shields could be faced in parchment or guesso (sp) over
parchment ( sculpted before painting ) to fascilitate decorating and leather to enhance surface durability i'm not sure how much if at all farther back that might go .

[Allan Senefelder]

Lamellar consists of scales laced to each other in rows ,usually but not always horizontally , each row overlapping in the
opposite direction from the one above . It forms a defense that is somewhat springy while being fairly ridgid and is common wherever horse archery is to be found as a means of combat ,the east being most prevelant . Scale is made by
taking scale shaped pieces and either riveting/sewing them to a fabric or leather backing garment or using rings
to attach the plates to each other and the backing garment and the rows overlap down . The plates for either can be made
from iron , steel , leather and even bone or horn .These defenses are part of the same "familly "if you will . While
defenses made of small overlapping plates are depicted far more in art from this period than say 1150 maille is still
the most commonly represented .

[M Enwia]

[M Enwia]

[Allan Senefelder]

Lamellar , scale and maille were all in use ( this is still an era where nomadic horse tribes from the east are either recently settled or still arriving in europe and many armies recruited these tribal horse archers . ) . Lamellar and scale are
both very old types of armour ( the Romans used both ) that survived very late . One lamellar harness has been excavated from the grave pits at Wisby fought in 1361 of the coast of Sweden and was in use in Tibet and northern China right
through the 19th century . There is a Polish Hussars armour in a little art museum in Baltimore circa 1650 made up of
zischagge helmet , a pair of bridal gauntlets and aScale curiass(sp) . Any one of the three armour types were to be found in the Empire .

[M Enwia]