| Author |
Message |
|
Ed Schelzel
|
 Posted: Tue 26 Aug, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: Aketons, Arming Doublet, & Jack weight question |
 |
|
Hello,
I've been reading through the forums the last couple of weeks and this is one subject I've not seen brought up. Or perhaps I just missed it.
Anyway, does anyone know of general weights for these three garments?
By aketon I mean that which was worn under mail, arming doublet under plate and a jack being a stand alone or cover.
Also the hose worn under plate (you see it plainly in the rear shots of complete harnesses, the back of the thighs). I assume this was padded as well? Or layered, I should say. How many layers before it begins to interfere with leg movement, bending of the knee?
That area seems to be very vulnerable/exposed.
Thank you, I apologize for so many questions.
|
|
  |
 |
James Barker
Location: Ashburn VA Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 365
|
| Posted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am not sure anyone has weighted the extant cote armors that are out there; most were for over armor anyway. My replica is maybe 2-3 pounds; no more than a winter jacket.
There is not evidence I have ever heard of for padded hose; the best you get is the reference to wrapping blanket material around your knees to prevent chafing in “How a Man Shall be Armed.”
Translation:
| Quote: | | And he should wear a pair of hose made of worsted cloth. Around the knees should be wrapped ' bulwarks' of thin blankets to reduce the chafing by the leg harness. He should wear a pair of thick shoes, provided with points sewn on the heel and in the middle of the sole to a space of three fingers. |
Original:
| Quote: | | Also a payre hosyn of stamyn sengill and a peyre of shorte bulwerkis of thynne blanket to put aboute his kneys for chawfygeof his ligherness. Also a payre of shone of thikke cordwene and they muste be frette with smal whipcorde thre knottis up on a corde and thre coordis muste be faste sowid un to the hele of the shoo and fyne cordis in the mydill of the soole of the same shoo and that there be between the frettis of the heele and the frettis of the myddill of the shoo the space of thre fyngris. |
http://www.chronique.com/Library/Armour/armyd1.htm
James Barker
Historic Life http://www.historiclife.com/index.html
Archer in La Belle Compagnie http://www.labelle.org/
|
|
 |
|
Randall Moffett
|
| Posted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
This question is almost too broad. Are you looking for a certain period? Padded armour changes and evolves alot over time.
From 1st half of the 14th you have 3.1 pounds of cotton inside aketons from a Paris Ordinance and slightly later 2.3 in the great wardrobe rolls of England. This is just the inside stuffing. These seem to be worn with mail and other armour of the time.
You have padded chausses as well in this period throughout part of the 2nd half likely as well.
As James said finding weights on these will be hard for period pieces.
RPM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ed Schelzel
|
| Posted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 1:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| James Barker wrote: | | I am not sure anyone has weighted the extant cote armors that are out there; most were for over armor anyway. My replica is maybe 2-3 pounds; no more than a winter jacket. |
Just for reference, your sleeveless jack is 15 layers, 3 oz linen, and not stuffed?
| Randall Moffett wrote: | | This question is almost too broad. Are you looking for a certain period? |
I apologize. 14th for the aketon, and 15th for the jack and arming doublet.
| Quote: |
As James said finding weights on these will be hard for period pieces.
RPM |
You're so right. So far every book I've check mentions these garments (and interchanges all the names including gambeson) and their importance, kudos for that, but none have listed any weights. Plenty of weights given for individual armour pieces, but nothing for the cloths or leathers.
Also it's confusing (to me) when they list 'harness' weights as they do not detail what all pieces constitute a harness (in their view). It would be nice to know as no pictures are provided at times. Some even include the weight of a helm and shield as part of the total harness weight, but at least they are kind enough to point this out. Anyway, I'm straying here.
At a recent SCA event I attended (friendly observer, not a member), I overheard a merchant telling another person that a (deer) leather faced, 30 layer gambeson would weigh about 14lbs. At the time I thought nothing of it, but later after I begin reading, this weight seems doubtful. Hence my question to the forum. 
Thank you both for responding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mick Czerep
Location: Poland Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 59
|
|
 |
|
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
|
|
|
|
|
James Barker
Location: Ashburn VA Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 365
|
| Posted: Thu 28 Aug, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Ed Schelzel wrote: | | James Barker wrote: | | I am not sure anyone has weighted the extant cote armors that are out there; most were for over armor anyway. My replica is maybe 2-3 pounds; no more than a winter jacket. |
Just for reference, your sleeveless jack is 15 layers, 3 oz linen, and not stuffed? |
My 15 layer sleeveless jack is made of 3oz - 7oz layers depending; mostly lighter softer stuff and it weights 7 pounds; but I am 6'3" and 270 pounds so my size increases the weight. I made a 28 layer jack with arms for a skinny guy that weighs in at 12 pounds.
I also have a mid 14th century harness I made a fitted aketon for and it is the one that is 2-3 pounds. It is 4 layers of linen with raw cotton stuffing in the body.
| Ed Schelzel wrote: | | At a recent SCA event I attended (friendly observer, not a member), I overheard a merchant telling another person that a (deer) leather faced, 30 layer gambeson would weigh about 14lbs. At the time I thought nothing of it, but later after I begin reading, this weight seems doubtful. Hence my question to the forum. |
Sounds about right to me; I made a 28 layer jack with arms for a skinny guy that weighs in at 12 pounds and there is no leather.
James Barker
Historic Life http://www.historiclife.com/index.html
Archer in La Belle Compagnie http://www.labelle.org/
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ed Schelzel
|
| Posted: Thu 28 Aug, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Thank you James.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic