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Justin King
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PostPosted: Sun 29 Jun, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: scent-stopper pommel questions         Reply with quote

I have a project sword which I have been working on for a few years now (one of my "shelf projects" that get half finished and then sit and age while waiting for further inspiration), it is a big old Del Tin blade which has been much modified and experimented with and I am now turning it into a large hand and a half with a katzbalger-style figure-8 guard. I am trying to finalize the pommel design and having some trouble deciding exactly what I want.

These swords have been discussed in at least a couple threads before but I have only seen two pictures of original swords of this size with this type of guard, one was in a book which I have forgotten the title of, which had a pommel which was similar to a wheel pommel with a raised center except that it was square in shape instead of round like a typical wheel pommel.
The other is in the albums here and was shown in one of the threads I mentioned, which has a writhen-style scent-stopper or semi-globular pommel.
I originally wanted to make the pommel for my sword in a mushroom shape like is common on the smaller katzbalgers but I have decided that this is probably out of place on the larger swords. I am leaning towards the scent-stopper type pommel but was hoping for some more input/ideas and possibly more pictures of originals if anyone knows where to find any.

I scanned over Albion's NextGen page as this shows about as complete a variety of pommel styles as can be found easily, and what I am picturing is perhaps closest to the pommel shown on the Tyrolean in shape, I may or may not add fluting of some sort. I noticed the little rib or flange that is about halfway up the Tyrolean's pommel, where it begins to flare. I have seen this feature on reproductions but cannot remember seeing it on any original scent-stopper pommels. It almost indicates to me that the pommel was made on a lathe, which led me to wonder about what time (if any) lathes of some type may have come into use for production of sword parts. This is a bit of errant curiosity on my part but if anyone can offer any info I would be interested.
Lastly, would any of these larger types of pommels have been hollow, and/or be made of multiple elements joined together, as opposed to solid cast of forged construction? Judging from pictures some of them are quite massive and must be pretty hefty if they are solid.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The book Europaische Hieb Und Stich Waffen has several. Since the book is a catalogue of the Museum fur Deutsche Geschichte, that's where they are. Happy

The second and third picture show the same swords.



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Big Katz 3.jpg
Proto katzbalger/schiavone

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Big Katz 2.jpg
Hand and a half Katzbalger (in the middle of course)

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Big Katz 1.jpg
Hand and a half Katzbalger (in the middle)

Happy

ChadA

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad's examples are spot-on.

Quote:
I scanned over Albion's NextGen page as this shows about as complete a variety of pommel styles as can be found easily

I'd strongly suggest getting inspiration from antiques/originals rather than replicas. Albion's items are as well-researched as anyone's (and quite a bit better than most), but they're still inspirations and recreations. Best to go to the wealth of what antiquity has left us.

Have you seen our Oakeshott article, particularly the page discussing Pommel Forms?

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Justin King
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Location: flagstaff,arizona
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Reading list: 20 books

Posts: 551

PostPosted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 6:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies, fellas. I appreciate the input. I am probably going to make a pommel similar to the writhen-style scent stopper shown on the larger sword in the latter two pictures, with the narrow grip-end elongated somewhat.. Something very similar in shape to the pommels on Lutel's version(s) of this type. The writhen design seems very time-consuming to reproduce by hand, so I was thinking of foregoing it, but this project has been going on so long it would be ridiculous to cut it short this close to the end to save a little time. I will post pics when it comes together.
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