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Steven Janus
Location: Florida, USA Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
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 Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: My First Angus Trim Blade: Maker's Mark XIIA |
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So I decided to step into the big realm of the top three! The tripple A's! All joking aside, I've only cut one water bottle with this thing so far so I'm merely discussion fit and finish and as well as dry handling in this intial post. Stats were correct as indicated for length, width, height. Weight was not correct however. Listed weight for this Accented fuller Maker's Mark XIIA on Christian Fletcher's website is 3lbs 2 ounces. The actual product in fact weighs 2 lbs 13 ounces. I wish it were perhaps a bit heavier to have a bit more blade presence but on the other than, this would make for a wonderful civilian arms longsword against unarmored opponnents.
Now, it did have issues as to fit and finish when it arrived. There some minor gaps inbetween the cross guard and where the blade meets. Very minor, maybe half a milimeter. I suppose I could file down the shoulders but it isn't enough to bother me. However, I did have a serious problem with the tip of the sword. It arrived chipped and needed a good 2 1/2 hours of filling to get it back to a service point. Not as big of a deal for me since I have previous experience reshaping tips with a Nicholson file. I don't know if is Fedex's fault or whose but either way, it happened. Christian Fletcher did put lots foam of padding for the tip but it still happened.
Speaking of which, if you notice in the photos, the tip is of a different polish than the rest of the sword. After I filed it I ran 600 grit over it to repolish it but I did not have time to run it over the rest of the blade for it started raining and I had to move my work inside to finish. Not a big deal. I just need to get some more 600 grit sand paper and hopefully 1000 grit sand paper to give it a good finish. For someone not experienced with a file and polishing I could have seen this being a much bigger problem. Though I would never sharpen a whole sword from edge to tip I know a bit or two about filling.
Anyway enough about that. Other than thoose two issues this blade is perfect. Light, fast, deadly, very sharp, etc. Not so much due to the sharpenness of the edge though. This is a very thin blade, especially near the tip. I don't know how to measure the thickness but it definitely does taper quite nicely from the cross guard to the tip. To sum it up, it cuts water bottles very eassily even for a total rookie like myself.
To make matters even better, it fits pefectly in my old DSA 12 century scabbard which Brian of DBK redid for me a while back. Thanks Brian! Not much in the way of rattling or such. I just can't believe that the total wieght of the Atrim sword and DSA scabbard, 4.6 pounds, is the same as the dry weight of the 1340 DSA sword without the scabbard. Nothing against Darksword. I just need a light cutting sword and not a stage blade. The original DSA sword I had was a good sword, good for stage combat but I messed it up trying to sharpen it and such. Long story, rather not get into it.
Anyway, despite the damage recieved in shipment, it is a very good sword. Also, as a bonus, Christian Fletcher threw in an Allen key to tighten the pommel nut with so I didn't need to waste time and money running to Lowes or Home Depot to try and find one. Over all, awsome work! I don't know if I would jump to buy one again in the near future due to the cost involved in getting it the way I would want with a high end grip, wooden core scabbard, and frog and belt. If you got the money though, it sure is worth!
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/StevenJ61/Atrim01-1.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/StevenJ61/Atrim02-1.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/StevenJ61/Atrim03-1.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/StevenJ61/Atrim04-1.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/StevenJ61/Atrim05-1.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/StevenJ61/Atrim06-1.jpg
Newbie Sword collector
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Chris Artman
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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I am getting sick and tired of the BULLCRAP packing jobs done by most companies and people shipping swords, maces, percussion, and any of these weapons. Almost every single item I have received besides the heavily anchored Brescia Spadonia, comes with dented, bent, or messed up tips/points... When are people going to learn that these are swords and weapons for a reason, they are sharp! I just don't get it... 75% of everything I have purchased comes with the tip going thru the tip rotector and the box, messing up the tips, spikes, or whatever.... There is no excuse for the packers, the MUST heavily anchor and strap down the weapon to the middle of the box to ensure that the sword or weapon cannot move, and must put enough space to ensure that even some movement will not allow the tips(s) to get even close to the end of the box. People are just not putting these items in large enough boxes and are not adequately ANCHORING then to the MIDDLE of the box. It is pure lame packing!!!! You can't just shove in packing material, it is a SWORD for crying out loud!! Companies that are in the buisness know this and still ship this stuff and expect us to take this nonesense and just file and polish it out... I recently ordered a MIRROR polished sword and the tip went thru the box and was all chipped up... what a bunch of B.S. Fedex won;t cover it since they think it isn't damaged... then the shipper tried to buff it out, but not as good as it should be.... This happens to me with maces, swords, and everything... no excuse for POOR PACKING!!!! The shipper has that responsibility.....
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: My First Angus Trim Blade: Maker's Mark XIIA |
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| Steven Janus wrote: |
Now, it did have issues as to fit and finish when it arrived. There some minor gaps inbetween the cross guard and where the blade meets. Very minor, maybe half a milimeter. I suppose I could file down the shoulders but it isn't enough to bother me. |
Yes I had the same with my AT1435 where one could see a little light where the shoulder met the guard: Very minor but annoying, I fixed the problem by filing a narrow groove at a shallow angle until the corners of the blade were below the front surface of the guard. This means that the guard is now inletted into the shoulders by 1 mm or less.
Structurally this changes nothing as the gap didn't mean any weakness in the assembly, but aesthetically is just looked wrong.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Eric Spitler
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Sweet sword! Welcome to the dark side (  +  ) That scabbard rocks too. CF's skill never ceases to amaze. Sorry to hear about your shipping woes. It's definitely worth the cost to invest in a hard gun case for shipping if you have the option. My AT1518 also has some space between the blade and the guard, but it was my first 'real' sword, so it never bothered me. Keep in mind that the sword components are optimized for the least weight possible without compromising performance, so removing even more stock to better seat the shoulders may have some structural consequences, and would definitely increase the price.
Last edited by Eric Spitler on Sat 21 Jun, 2008 6:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Chris;
I have had one of these mushed tips a long while ago in shipping but like Steven I could fix it myself as it was very minor.
But you do have a point ( No pun intended ) that the packing should assume the worse possible handling in transit.
Just as an example on how it should be done: My OlliN sword came in a handmade wooden crate with brass hinges as well and hard foam padding making the sword solidly suspended away from the boxe's ends. Oh, didn't hurt that the sword was in it's scabbard.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Steven Janus
Location: Florida, USA Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I would consider filling the shoulders but the darn grip won't come off! I used too much blue loctite! I can get the pommel nut off no problem but the darn pommel is sealed to the grip and I'm afriad to use a hammer to shake it loose  ! Not a big deal though, execpt the pommei is oh 10 degress of center or so to the right. Very minor but another annoyance. Overall, I am pleased with the product. Great cutter, not good thruster. I have an old beat up plastic trash bin I use for practice thrusting. My heavier DSA Gothic sword thrust it no problem, this sword can't even pierece but it is a a very thin tip and a whippier blade to be fair. Then again, the Atrim is much faster. Both can handel light targets like water bottles but the Atrim does so better. However I wouldn't want to use it against heavy armor where as my DSA sword would be good against heavier targets. Neither sword is excesively slow either.
Anyway, again, the Scabbard nor suspension are CF or Atrim products. The Scabbard is from an older 1340 Darksword that was upolstered by Brian at DBK Custom Swords. I specifically choose this sword since I wanted a replacement 12th to 13rh century two hander that could cut light targets as well as heavy ones unlike the Darksword that the scabbard was originally for. So I made sure I got an Atrim with the same width at the base and similar length as the 1340 DSA. They are within one inch and half inches of total blade length yet the DSA sword is much thicker and weighs twice as much.
This is a cool sword. I have a Norman Dagger from DSA I got when I ordered my Gothic sword. I have it attached to my scabbard for the Atrim. The Atrim longsword is light enough to be used almost like an arming sword so you could fight with both sword and dagger if so desired  . Overall I am happy small nick nacks aside. I wish I wasn't so rushed and put too much blue loctite on the threaded tang so the pommel wouldn't be permanently sealed to it. Darn label said 'service strength'. Oh well.
Newbie Sword collector
Last edited by Steven Janus on Sat 21 Jun, 2008 8:10 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Chris,
Let's make sure we don't rant. It's not what we do here.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven Janus wrote: | | Overall I am happy small nick nacks aside. I wish I wasn't so rushed and put too much blue loctite on the threaded tang so the pommel wouldn't be permanently sealed to it. Darn label said 'service strength'. Oh well. |
I use blue locktite and it does the job of keeping screws from easily loosening but it is easy to break the hold of the locktite.
Maybe it's that I just used a drop on the screw threads and maybe you covered a large amount of internal surface area ?
I'm assuming that it's the same product ?  The locktite does seem to hold well at least until it doesn't hold at all ? Maybe a firm and sudden twist will break the bond ? I wouldn't use a hammer though, just something to hold the pommel firmly but with the pommel covered with something ( leather ?) to avoid marring the surface if using a pipe wrench or table vise and give the handle a twist. Try the least amount of force first and increase the amount of force gradually i.e. heavy but gently.
Never tried to find out but maybe there is a " Locktite " site with a FAQ section that covers stubborn locktited stuff ?
Heat high enough to make it let go but low enough to not damage the handle or steel ? A hair drier might be hot enough ?
Just guessing here. Oh, and when I want stuff to be permanently glued together I prefer 5 minute epoxy.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Steven Janus
Location: Florida, USA Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hm, I did initially use a good amount but only on the part sticking through the pommel. I'm sure some did slide down a bit further into the tang. You did get me thinking. I think I will try a series of light to moderate hammer strikes. Not strong enough to damage but enough to loosen it up so I can pull it off and flip the pommel 180 to see if it is still off center. Thanks for the idea. I'll try the hair dryer idea too but I'm not sure about that one. I'll give it a try though if the hammer doesn't work.
Newbie Sword collector
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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If people have issues with swords arriving damaged, take it up with the shipper and/or maker. Consumers shouldn't have to modify their swords or accept damaged items because of a shipping issue. Make sure the maker insures it for the full value on its way to you and send it back to them or file a claim with the shipper.
If you get a box with a hole in it, ask the delivery person to wait while you open it and inspect the item. If something is damaged, report it before the delivery person leaves; they're your proof that you didn't open the box up later, damage the item, and then try to pass it off as a shipping problem. If they've left the parcel at your door and there are holes in it, take pictures of the box before you open it, then pictures of the damaged item.
Talk to the maker and/or file a claim with the shipper. It's your right to receive an undamaged item. The maker and/or shipper have a duty to you. Makers/vendors continue to use shoddy packaging because it's cheap and easy. If they have to deal with the shipper on a claim or fix/remake your item, it ceases to become cheap and easy. The smart decision, financially and in terms of hassle is to pack things well.
Yes, shipper claims take time and having the maker fix things takes time but they won't change until it hits them in the wallet. It will be inconvenient in the short term for you, but better for everyone (including you) in the long run.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 21 Jun, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven Janus wrote: | | Hm, I did initially use a good amount but only on the part sticking through the pommel. I'm sure some did slide down a bit further into the tang. You did get me thinking. I think I will try a series of light to moderate hammer strikes. Not strong enough to damage but enough to loosen it up so I can pull it off and flip the pommel 180 to see if it is still off center. Thanks for the idea. I'll try the hair dryer idea too but I'm not sure about that one. I'll give it a try though if the hammer doesn't work. |
I would try to do that search for " Loctite " FAQ or using tips before doing anything else and I personally would avoid using a hammer and try to apply torque rather than impact force.
Just don't want my guesses to be taken as a " sure " thing.  Think twice before hitting once kind of thing. 
( EDITED/ADDITIONAL: Did a quick search http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loctite and
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/questions.asp?answerme=393#cat393 )
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Eric Spitler
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| Posted: Sun 22 Jun, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Steven Janus wrote: | | Anyway, again, the Scabbard nor suspension are CF or Atrim products. The Scabbard is from an older 1340 Darksword that was upolstered by Brian at DBK Custom Swords. |
D'oh! My bad for reading too fast. The fit looks uncanny
"I never heard a corpse ask how it got so cold."
- Richard, The Lion in Winter
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Steven Janus
Location: Florida, USA Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sun 22 Jun, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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The fit is good but the scabbard is actually cosniderably thicker than the sword. If you look at number five closely you will see what I mean. Anyway Jean, I tried reading that FAQ loctite page and said forget it. I took a hammer to it very lightly and I knocked it loose. It now sits straight and tight so it is all good now. Thanks for your help though! Didn't dent or leave any scratches with the hammer technique either.
Newbie Sword collector
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sun 22 Jun, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven Janus wrote: | | The fit is good but the scabbard is actually wider than the sword. If you look at number five you will see what I mean. Anyway Jean, I tried reading that FAQ loctite page and said forget it. I took a hammer to it very lightly and I knocked it loose. It now sits straight and tight so it is all good now. Thanks for your help though! Didn't dent or leave any scratches with the hammer technique either. |
If you file a groove for the swords shoulders to be below the level of the face of the guard, what worked with me was to use very narrow square or rectangular files that can cut with the narrow side and do an inclined cut into the existing hole for the tang. Shallow angle and keeping the grove narrower than the blade thickness at first to establish the cut.
As the corner enlarges the tang hole try and fit and see how much of a gap remains between blade shoulders and face of guard. Cut, check, repeat until the corners of the blade shoulders is just below the face of the guard.
Some shaping and enlarging the width of the slot may be needed for a close fit, but as little material as possible should be removed: Just enough to get the job done.
Should you make a " horrible " mistake at least the guard could be replace with a new one from CF or AT. ( Try to avoid it ) .
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Steven Janus
Location: Florida, USA Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Well the gap isn't that bad after further examining it. I mean I am good at filling but I'm still not going to mes swith it but thanks Jean. I did have something very important to say besides that though. Mr. Fletcher wrote me back again today and said that he's worried about how my sword got chipped in shipping so he said he is going to mount the swords to a wooden slat for shipment for now on. Sounds interesting. Just thought you all should know if you plan on buying from him soon. I would but I don't have that kind of money . If I did though, I'd be right in line buying up the rest of the instock Atrim swords!
Newbie Sword collector
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Mon 23 Jun, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Steven Janus wrote: | | Well the gap isn't that bad after further examining it. |
Yes in my case the gap was also very small and really not a problem but I preferred having the sword's shoulders completely hidden by the guard when looked at from the side in a strong light and it seemed easy to fix as long as I was careful so I didn't make an issue out of it. Oh, I had the sword for months before that very small gap started nagging at me and another reason I didn't mention it before or to Christian at the time.
I assume that Christian could and would have modified the guard if I had asked but shipping back the sword from Canada didn't seem worth the trouble ( Customs clearance both ways ) or cost. I don't think that shipping the guard by itself would have been practical as he would have needed the blade as well to know how much to file.
If I ordered another sword from Christian I would mention the fit of the guard and tell him my preferences and ask him about it relative to the sword I would be buying at the time. ( Might or might not be an issue at all with a different sword/guard combination ).
Just trying to give Steven some advice/opinions to help and giving " context " to my comments. A damaged tip in shipping is a different type of problem from a minor design issue and I glad that Christian is taking measures to reduce the odds of damage happening in transit. 
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Tue 24 Jun, 2008 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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George P.
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| Posted: Tue 24 Jun, 2008 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Steven, thats a beautiful weapon.
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