Original Thorpe Falchion and Making a Custom Reproduction -- myArmoury.com

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 9:14 am Post subject:

I would agree that you can never replicate the original 100%, and there is no need to replicate flaws... There is also some degree of interpretability due to the age and wear of the sword. That being said, we don't know exactly what the sword was like new, so that is the fun in artistic interpretation, we have some room for improvement per se...

1) The engravings on the side of the pommel can be replicated 100%, the pattern is clear and easily reproducible.

2) The false edge was sharpened on the original, I assume this means only along the final 9 and 3/4" of the curved tip.

3) No reason to make a blade thin like that, not to mention the original is so worn

4) The dragon and the monster can be more detailed, there can be some artistic licence there as well.

5) I'd be curious to choose the width of the fuller between that of the original andthat of the vassal... We can sketch it out and see... The curve on that one short fuller is a must, that is a very nice and original detail.

By the way, I have to post a picture of another falchion in one of my books with a very cool design near the start of the curved tip on the false edge (looks like a curled cut-out) ... If the original is worn, how do we know it might also not have had it... I'll post the image from the book and let me know what you think.

Remember the forum member who just had Ollin do a MESSER recently, and he added the serrations? Well, I'll show you the image of this other falchion and see what you think....

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 9:33 am Post subject:

Is there any way to change the title of this thread? It would be nice if it was renamed to something like Original Thorpe Falchion and Making a Custom Reproduction (or something like that, is this possible?)

Dan Dickinson · Industry Professional

Chris all you have to do is click the little E button in the upper right hand corner of your first post in this thread and then change the topic title.....it should change the thread title for you.
Dan

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 10:17 am Post subject:

From Sean's earlier post, I've put it here so that it can easily be referrenced by those following the thread:

"Alan E. West, Curator of Archaeology for Norfolk Museums and Archaeology Service, has generously provided the following additional information about the Thorpe Falchion. I've added inch and pound conversions in parentheses.

Measurements and Specifications of Original:
Weight: 904g (1.98 pounds)
Overall length: 956mm (37.6")
Blade length: 803mm Blade (31.6")
Blade width: 48mm (1.8") at hilt
Max blade width: 56mm (2.2") at 225mm (8.8") from tip
Blade thickness: 2.5mm (.09") max thickness
Guard width: 196mm (7.7")
Guard thickness: 9mm (.35") at blade
Grip length: 100mm (3.9")
Pommel Width: 148mm (1.8")
Pommel Length: 44mm (1.7")
Point of Balance: 243mm (9.6") from end of pommel

Blade notes: Single fuller of 1.5-2mm (.05"-.07") width runs 5mm (.19") parallel to back of blade on one side of the blade only. False edge appears to have same bevel as true edge.

Mr. West noted that the grip is missing and the blade edge shows "numerous notches," while the back of the blade is in better condition. He said the pommel is brass with engraved images of animals and monsters. As for provenance, West said the falchion was dredged from the River Yare at Thorpe St. Andrew in 1833 and has been in the collection of the Norwich Museum (now Norwich Castle Museum) since that time."

Dan Dickinson · Industry Professional

Michael S. Rivet · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 11:10 am Post subject:

Anybody have the balance point?

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 11:17 am Post subject:

It is on page 2, I copied it from Sean Flynt's original research provided by Alan... see page 2... But with all of the wear and age of that sword, isn't hard to say what the original properties of that sword are?

Dan Dickinson · Industry Professional

Adding Sean's stats up has us with a POB of 3.65 from the cross.
Dan

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 11:31 am Post subject:

Now that folks are revisiting my five-year-old (!) falchion review, I want to officially retract my characterization of falchions as "relatively heavy." That's a common misperception, and one I have dropped since publishing the review. Peter Johnsson--the source of so much great information and good sense--wrote this in a 2004 post:

This is something to take note of regarding the falchion family as well: they are not generally the heavy choppers often made out to be. Those I have seen and handled were light and thin in the blade. There is surely some blade presence, but not more than can be expected on any typical chopping/cutting sword. Nor is their weight much greater than double edged swords with similar blade length. There is a difference in mass distribution, but not so much as one might assume from blade profile. As the blades grow wider, they also grow thinner.

That insight deserves repeating here, both to guide the reproduction of the Thorpe falchion and as a corrective to my over-generalization.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

Forgive my hyperventilation, but I'm just very excited about what's happening here. Thanks to this site we're seeing a collector, manufacturer and curator (not to mention more than a thousand readers at all levels of a&a education) in orbit around an important sword with the goal of understanding it well enough to recreate it. It's a perfect myArmoury.com moment, in my view. If we can publish a formal review of the resulting recreation, the circle will be complete! Big Grin

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject:

Luka Borscak · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject:

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject:

I'm anxious to get home to post a picture of the image of another falchion that has a curl (wave-like) cut out on the false edge, near the peak of the max width... very, very cool... I might have to make an arguement that the original is worn in this area, and how do we know for sure it didn't have this interesting cut-out Wink

It is so cool that I'm going to have a hard time not incorporating it... I'll put up the picture and grab your feedback... will be curious for your opinions...

(I'm also anxious to get home, because there is a Brescia Spadona out for delivery... )

Type: Package
Status: Delivered
Delivered On: 06/18/2008

can't wait to get home!!)

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject:

I think the main goal here is to approximate the original Thorpe Falchion when it was new: who is to say exactly how thick or thin the original is due to all of the loss of mass over the years?? Personally, I'd like to have something that errs on being robust than thin...

Chris Artman · Posted: Wed 18 Jun, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject:

Here is a falchion from the Metropolitan Museum with some very nice features:

I really like the curl and the small adjacent serration...

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Chris Artman · Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2008 8:30 am Post subject:

13th century Wink

Okay, okay, its 15th century, but it is so nice...

Danny Grigg · Posted: Thu 19 Jun, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject:

Chad

The pic of that falchion is from Stone's "A Glossary of the construction...."

The full description:
"Figure 276. Falchion, German, 15th century. Metropolitan Museum."

Does anyone know if this Falchion is still on display at the Met?
If so anyone got some good pics of it and maybe some more information about it?

Chris any chance you can post some more pics of the Thorpe Falchion showing the entire sword as I've yet to see a good quality colour photo of it.

Thanks

Danny

Chad Arnow · myArmoury Team

Dan Dickinson · Industry Professional