[K. Larson]

This is, perhaps, a frivolous question, but since swords are so often featured in these sorts of narratives, it seems worthwhile...

What type of armament would be best-suited to a quest/adventure?

A "quest" in this case would consist of a small group (<10 individuals) traveling overland at best possible speed for a prolonged period (1 to 12 weeks) for a potentially violent purpose (rescue, ambush, etc). Our heroes may be required to travel upon roads, across open country, through wilderness, over rivers, and through cities. The intervening territory should not be presumed to be friendly to the party. Assume no hobbits :-).

Time period clearly plays a role- please consider medieval, renaissance, and 17/18th century time periods to be separate questions.

I've seen any manner of battlefield-related questions (which are doubtlessly more realistic) but nothing on this area of silly wool-gathering.

My own guesses:

Medieval: mail byrnie, arming sword, spangenhelm (perhaps), and a buckler.
Renaissance: brigandine, side-sword, and buckler.
17th/18th: Firearms, backsword or spadroon.

[Werner Stiegler]

There seems to be little difference between knights going on aveture and knights going to war in the Parcival appart from the horse barbing.

[Nathan Gilleland]

For a historically based fantasy scenario (which is what I'm assuming you're going for?) I would suggest the following:

medieval:

Either a short-sleeved maille haubergeon or padded leather (possibly both)

an Oakshott type X, XI, XII, or XIV (If you need a visual, go to Albion's Next Gen page)

A short horse-bow (or equivalent)

Boiled leather vambraces

Possibly a buckler

and a Norman Helm

I think that this would give you a well-rounded arsenal of both weapons and defenses. Heavy enough armour that you could survive a heavy skirmish, but light enough for a scouting patrol. Distance weapon (bow) along with melee weapon (sword and buckler).

I would also suggest that you would blacken or blue the metal on your armour as to not reflect light.



I don't know much about Renaissance and later periods, so I'll just toss my two cents towards the medieval scenario.

[Peter Lyon]

Without looking too much at the specific types of arms and armour, here are some other thoughts about the overall planning and logisitcs of such an expedition and how it could effect the choices made.

Small party, needing to travel fast. Forget full plate harness - too heavy to walk far in, hard work for a horse over longer distances, too noisy for quiet travel, too time consuming to put on and take off (and since this isn't a FRPG, forget about sleeping in it unless you want to collapse from exhaustion within five days), needs help to put on and off, needs lots of maintenance (rusty armour, especially the later types with turn collars etc, is more than an eyesore). Armour needs to be light, easy to put on and off without help (especially if it all goes pear shaped and you need to run, real fast, like right now), minimal maintenance, but still decent protection. My choice would be brigandine for the torso (not a CoP, the back fastenings are a pain), cuisses with light steel strips for the thighs, nothing below that, mail or light plate sleeves, light gauntlets for the hands, armoured collar, and a visored helmet that is easy to open.

Weapons similar requirements. Large weapons such as bills- why not just hang a flag on it to advertise your presence even better? Smaller weapons are ideal - swords should be riding-swords or one handers (no zweihanders please - see reason above), large fighting dagger, plus a smaller utility knife (if you need that in combat, you really are in trouble!), plus many cheaper weapons such as axes that can be thrown away in a pinch.

Range weapons - bows are good in the open, but if you want something more compact for travelling through scrub and forest, I would go for a moderate poundage crossbow, that can be spanned by hand or with a belt hook or goat's foot lever - crannequins and windlasses are too awkward. Again, if you get in combat with heavily armoured opponents and want that heavy crossbow for punch, it just means you left it too late to run.

Overall, my reading of the romances that involve quests by the knight, gives me mainly the impression of the impracticality of them. Espcially of the knight going out alone (not even a squire) yet able to maintain himself and his horse and harness unaided - yeah right. My former RPG background is probably showing through, but your question actually raises some very interesting points, mainly that what we think we would choose to take on a quest, is actually nothing like what we would need to take, and much of that extra stuff would be discarded pretty quickly.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Peter's answer just above covers it very well and I would just mention a few " variants " assuming I could cheat a little with some of my modern made kit like stainless steel welded maille that only weighs 8 pounds.

So, stainless maille haubergeon that is light enough and smooth enough that it can be worn over only a heavy shirt .
This same maille can also fit over a moderate thickness gambison or under it to hide the maille ( Secrète: Hidden armour when being armoured would attract extra unwanted attention ).

For head protection a close fitting cervelière with a maille coif that could be worn over or under the cervelière: I find over the cervelière give a lot of protection as the maille hangs like a loose curtain. ( Easy to hide when not worn ).

Maybe I would add my Mercenary Taylor's Wisby gauntlets as they fold easily and could be put under the sword belt if not used and combined with the maille sleeves going down to just past the elbow they would give almost complete arm protection.

Legs unarmoured but possibly high leather boots for some protection. ( Must still be comfortable if doing a lot of walking ).

Buckler essential.

Main personal weapons:
1)Sword type XIV or an agile two hander like the A & A Black prince or something like the Albion Doge.
2)Large coustille dagger.
3)Ballock dagger and/or 9" blade double edge dagger + miscellaneous small working knife and throwing knives ( small, easy to hide and not much extra weight to carry around.
4) Sling: Weighs almost nothing and can throw dense lead bullets or any convenient rock, and give an always available missile weapon. ( Obviously one would need the skills to be reasonably accurate with one ).

Extra weapons/tools kept discretely out of site or normal to that culture to carry around when travelling:
1) Medium sized axe ( 36" ) useable as a camp tool but mostly a good fighting type.
2) Small hatchet/throwing axe.
4) A number of javelins
5) Bow and/or crossbow of medium power versus speed of loading. ( Decent number of arrows/bolts ).

If one can get away with it, ( If pack horses/mules or some sort of cart/wagon is practical ):
1) 8' spears
2) Kite shields

( Note: A lot of these would be spread around the group of around 10 and be available to any or all and not be a list of stuff that everyone of them would be lugging around, also only the personal kit would be essential and everything else could be ditched if speed became the priority ).

Obviously all the kit necessary for travelling not related to fighting.

Nice to have: Some gold, precious stones, coins, letters of credit.
If travelling through friendly territory a " Letters of Mark " or letters of introduction from the local ruler saying that you are a friend of the ruler, a noble mandated to be armed and that all assistance, hospitality and courtesy be shown by officers of the Crown or whatever title appropriate. ( Always good to be a friend of the King or Duke or whatever. ).

In enemy territory " fake " papers ".

[Ted Parolari]

I'd definitely agree with parts of both posts above, though I think my kit would be different depending on if I'm going in secret or not. If I'm going to war then I'm taking everything I can get my hands on including the kitchen sink!!! If I being secretive, then I'm going to be a bit more choosy about what I take.

I think a Brigandine or a jack would be the way to go for the main body armor for the same reasons Peter described above. I'd also go with high boots with steel strips on the interior as Jean mentioned. Some sort of metal cap for head protection. Maybe a Viking or a Norman type helm. Nothing fancy, just plain and functional as all good gear should be.

For weapons, again I think it depends on how you are trying to move. If I'm going in secretly and on foot, my sword would be something with both a cutting edge and a point for thrusting. I'm more partial to single blades myself, so I might opt for a backsword or a falchion. My secondary would probably be a khukri or a tomahawk or both. I'd also probably carry a smaller dagger as well. I'd either have a small target or a buckler. I'd also carry a bow or a sling for putting meat on the cook fire as well as some sort of range weapon. I kinda like the sling idea from Jean! I've always wanted to make one and learn how to use it. If I were going to have a sling then another thing I might carry is some sort of a walking stick or staff for steadying myself while walking and for quick defense. That would be something that would not draw a lot of attention (after all a man walking around carrying a naked blade would tend to look a bit funny), yet could be handy as a quick weapon that's already in the hand in case of an ambush.

[Nathan Gilleland]

Running with Ted's idea of a walking cane...

You could probably put a subtle iron tip on the bottom end. This would lengthen the life of the cane itself, but if pointed could also substitute as a makeshift short spear? You might be able to simply harden the wood into a subtle point. (I've heard of people doing this, but am unsure of how it's done... Something with fire... Charring the end?)

Pertaining to the armour:

Perhaps hardened leather would be an ideal armour choice here, assuming that you are going for a more secretive mission/adventure.

[Simon G.]

Just a link that might be useful :
http://www.chronique.com/Library/Armour/armyd1.htm
It's a period text (mid XVth century) on "How a man shall be armed for his ease when he shall fight on foot". It's written for tournament purposes, but it does have a very practical side to it (mentions food, for instance) and might help not forgetting little details that are too easily overlooked by us modern men who focalise too much on armours and swords, being unaware of the less glamorous necessities of the chivalric trade (e.g. it advises to bring a dozen "arming points", which are "Leather discs attached to armour so that it could be laced to the gambeson, hauberk, or another piece of armour." Indeed it would be a pain in the neck for a knight to be suddenly stuck with a good armour, but a shortage of what he needs to properly put it on !).

In the same spirit you might want to take a look at some indentures dealing with equipment. For instance, I have one here concluded in 1475 ; it's in fact an inventory of what one John Sturgeon, master of the King's [Edward IV] Ordnance, delivered in France to William Roos, controller of said Ordnance. Of course such things deal with bigger parties than what you're asking about (it's about equiping an army, not a platoon) but it does show, again, interesting details. There is of course a count of what you would expect in an artillery inventory (guns, ammo) but also a listing, down to every single object, of all the tools and miscellaneous things that might come in handy (felling axes, crowbars, pincers, torches, lanterns, horseshoes, etc. etc.). This goes on to show that, far from being the uncivilised brutes totally unaware of the niceties of a picky administration that we too easily picture, mediaeval men paid, in fact, much attention to these small details (e.g. have horseshoes and shoenails at hand to be able to tend to your horses when required) that are of course very important when one ogranises a campaign/quest, whatever the troop's size !

EDIT : another good inspiration to make your average "party of adventurers" a bit more historical/realistic is a knight's lance (here a unit, not a weapon) that is to say the small group of ~10 men (varying widely with wealth, status etc. of course) that a knight took with him to war. One has to remember that, while the sources mostly speak about the big battles with thousands of men on each side, most of the mediaeval military activity was small unit-sized, and comprised of ambushes, harrying of the enemy's lands, etc. So this kind of small units were not only a means to organise recruitment and determine how much soldiers of this and that type so-and-so or so-and-so would have to bring with him to contribute to his lord's army ; it would also, very probably (just taking a somewhat educated guess there, I'm not a specialist of mediaeval warfare even though I know some things about it) serve as an independent unit to carry out "small wars".

Here's what an average lance was made of at the beginning of the XIVth century (I'm taking this from a book in French, so the technical terms might vary) :
* the knight, riding in mail and with his riding sword on a palefroi (a horse specially trained for long travels and that was able to go with a smooth pace not tiring for the rider, as opposed to the war horse, that was led, not mounted, when not in battle)
* the squire, equipped with mail and carrying with him on his horse the most cumbersome pieces of the knight's equipment (shield, helm, spear)
* a coutiller, mounted on a coursier (a quick and powerful palefroi) in mail, armed with a spear, a sword and the coutille (big dagger used to kill a prisoner that did not want to surrender for ransom)
* six mounted bowmen, in medium armour (mail/leather)
* menservants (with no armour, but with weapons, such as falchions, spears or morningstars)
* several horses for carrying equipment, especially food
* several footmen with polearms

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Steven H]

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Simon G.]

[Shawn Henthorn]

I would go with brig defences on torso thigh and plate for forarm and stout mid thigh boots..absolutly no jacks due to the fact of how heavy and how long it would take to dry out if it got wet. A lite weight helm with some face protection(such as a nasal) and lite gauntlets As for weapons I would take an arming sword and buckler, or if not too period dependant, a hanger with a half shell gaurd or a messer (that could do double duty as a machete).I would also take a shorter spear (under 7') or a crossbow. An axe light enough for one hand use but long enough for 2 hand use (around 36" haft) might replace the sword due to it's more utilitarian nature. Basicly I would choose my equipment to do as many jobs a possible..hmm maybe a medieval "swiss army sword"

[Bennison N]

I think it really all relies upon whom your questing companions are. I think if we're in Europe during Medieval times, I would definitely want to take along a Priest of one of the Military Orders (at least one) with some medical knowledge, and a skilled Blacksmith with experience repairing and maintaining armour and weaponry amongst the usual blacksmithing duties such as shoeing horses, etc. I'd also want to make sure that my party included a Bowman, or Bowmen (even better) with experience tracking and butchering game (it works on people too), and someone skilled at woodworking. The rest could then be Men-at-arms or Knights, preferrably well educated ( for language purposes), possibly from other lands. Foreigners always have the best legends and stories...

They can all choose their own equipment. That way they have only themselves to blame. Personally, I'd go for something like what Peter Lyon said (in terms of equipment) a few posts back. The flag is a nice touch... There's not much chance of a 10-man group of warriors going anywhere "quietly", especially in foreign lands, so a flag shows pride, authority and confidence.

A covered cart would be necessary for carriage of supplies, medicine, barrels of ale, food prep gear and seasonings, fresh clothing, Blacksmith's stuff, drunken colleagues, treasure, wenches, etc., and each individual is responsible for their own personal property, and all get equal shares in profit and supplies (and costs) to ensure loyalty and motivation. Then we head off... We might pick people and gear up along the way, and maybe even lose someone or something, but it's bound to be a lot of fun, right?

[B. Fulton]

I agree. A small 1 or 4 man sized party, in those kind of times, isn't 'survivable' in that any decent sized group catching you by suprise-=death.

A squad of 8-12 is more like it. Four well armed and armored (mail, shields, helms, etc) for the serious fighting. Everyone else for sentry duty/working parties, armed reasonably well (spear/halberd and dagger plus light armor, the odd axe or falchion) for filling in the line during a fight and as skirmishers. Bowmen or slingers if you can get them. Having seen personally what a well trained (30 years experience in the jungle, growing up as a missionary kid hunting for food) slinger can do with a hand-made sling (two shoelaces and the tongue off a Reebok)........ "run away! run away!" Against any short of a fully armored target (and even then, you might get lucky) a sling can do serious good work. Also effective for hunting light game (rabbits, etc).

Figure a horse and a remount per man plus four supply horses or donkeys. No cart.



In the 1700/1800s, shrink it down to about 6-8 men (firepower comes into play here) with muskets and bayonets, sideswords or backswords (something like a schiavona) and knives. Toss in one rifleman if you can get him.

[Chris Olsen]

you all forgot:

50 feet of rope
10 foot poll
torches
iron rations

because for decades (yup it's technically decadeS) adventures like ourselves have crawled through the darkest reaches of scary places in search of treasure, fair maidens, and the elusive +5 sword of goblin slaying... LOL

chris
player, dm, etc
guy who once carried all of his dice around in a sock that doubled as a nifty flail

[Anders Backlund]

[B. Fulton]

Having spent several hours in a forest in full 1300s gear and cloak in a rainstorm......cloaks come in handy for about 100 uses.

[Lafayette C Curtis]

[Nate C.]

I hate to play the "It all depends" card but.... It all depends .

Aside from the obvious baseline equipment like bedrolls, spare clothing, minimal tools, a way to catch game, etc. The mission would dictate your other kit. Assuming you were moving through not hostile, but not friendly territory (bandits and the like), I would tend to go with a light/medium load-out to facilitate speed:

medieval:
open bascinet with aventail/nasal, mail shirt, splinted greaves and gauntlets, side sword, a sturdy shield, and some sort of light lance. I'd want to travel with a few archers and the balance armed similarly to me. Also, a few pack horses to carry food/water/gear. Basic tactic is to keep moving and make it to the destination in one piece.

If going in heavy... I'd want full transitional armor accessorized with another 20 heavy lancers, support bowmen, and a solid baggage train with fresh mounts and all the required supplies, tools, and weapons.

renaissance:
breast and back, barbute, high boots, and leather gauntlets. Also a lance, 2 wheel-lock pistols and a heavy rapier. Again travel fast with a few musketeers and a few lightly armored cavalry like me.

for heavy, 1/2 or 3/4 armor with burgonet/falling buffe. pistols, lance, and rapier <-Heavy Cavalry

17/18th:
This would really depend on time and place. Assuming the old world, a pair of turn pistols, buff coat, Burgonet, gauntlets, side sword, and a smooth bore carbine.

For heavy... think Polish Hussar without the wings . The one problem with this approach is that you need supporting infantry to really do the job right (and survive).

It's really an interesting question because what you read in books and see in movies involves small bands fighting courageously and triumphing. In reality, it seems like small groups would travel light and fast or risk becoming road kill (quite literally).

Cheers,