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Eric Myers
Location: Sacramento, CA Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 214
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 Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 7:49 am Post subject: Paul MacDonald classical fencing sabres |
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Paul MacDonald recently posted pictures to the Classical Fencing list of some new sabre reproductions he is working on. He hopes to have them in ready for ordering and general release in a few months time. As far as I can tell, these are very accurate reproductions of actual pieces, and based on my (limited) familiarity with Paul's work, they should be absolutely top notch. In fact, I sort of hesitate to say this because I really want him to keep focusing on providing classical fencing weapons, but I think he is one of the most overlooked weaponsmiths, at least here in the US.
Here are some of his pictures:
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Left to right: Raedelli, Hutton, Pecararo.
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Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
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Johannes S.
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| Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 8:32 am Post subject: |
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What is his web site?
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Stephen A. Fisher
Location: Kentucky USA Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Eric,
These will be manufactured by CAS Iberia/ Hanwei, not by Paul Macdonald. He would have quite a large order to fill if he were. 
(from the Yahoo Classical Fencing Mailing List )
______________________________________________________Mar 25, 2004
Dear All,
Just a quick note to say that after 12 months in creation from
original proposal, the first sample Italian duelling sabres are here!
One deep, pierced shell Barbasetti, one straight bladed Radaelli,
one Hutton sabre. All are perfect weight, balance, dimensions and
temper. I shall be fully assessing and testing these weapons and
making a couple of minor recommendations for changes before they go
into full production before long.
Photographs and a full testing report shall be forwarded soon!
Yours Very Truly,
Paul Macdonald,
Maestro d`Armi, IMAF,
Director, BFHS,
Macdonald Academy of Arms,
Macdonald Academy of Exercises
________________________________________________________Mar 27, 2004
Dear All,
A few initial specifications details about the sabres.
Duelling sabres ~ Blade length 34"
Grip Length ~ 5 3/4"
Weight ~ Radaelli - 632g Pecararo - 556g
Hutton sabre ~ blade length - 31" (to be changed)
Weight ~ 598g
The uploaded photographs show clear images of the hilts and overall
proportion, which is exactly that of originals. The straight duelling
sabre blade is an exact copy from an original that I submitted for
reproduction. Curved blade versions will also be available.
All blades handle fantastically, with a slight difference in balance
between the Radaelli and Pecararo.
All blades are also interchangeable, so a duelling sabre blade on a
Hutton sabre will give you a Barbasetti sabre! (The grip and hilt
form is exactly the same for both).
These blades shall all be fully tested this weekend and I shall let
everyone know how they fare. Actual retail costs for these are yet to
be confirmed and a few recommendations shall be forwarded for minor
alterations prior to general production.
More to follow!
Yours Very Truly,
Paul Macdonald,
Maestro d`Armi, IMAF,
Director, BFHS,
Macdonald Academy of Arms,
Macdonald Academy of Exercises
________________________________________________________Apr 21, 2004
Dear All,
Just an update regarding the duelling and Hutton sabres.
All recomendations for alterations are being taken on board. The
appropriate tooling adjustments shall be made and further samples
provided.
The Hutton sabre shall have an extra 2" of blade length and the
Radaelli slightly reduced in weight without compromising strength
overall.
A quote on time to production from now has been given as 3 months,
so they should be available from around the end of July onwards.
Initial discussions indicated that future classical fencing blades
should be possible, ensuring accurate weight, dimension and temper
blades for several weapon types.
I trust that this news is of interest to all and I shall of course
keep you all updated as soon as further is heard.
For your information, I shall be out of the country from tomorrow
until Monday and therefore unable to answer personal e-mails directly.
Yours Very Truly,
Paul Macdonald,
Maestro d` Armi, IMAF,
Director, BFHS,
Macdonald Academy of Arms,
Macdonald Academy of Exercises
_______________________________________
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Stephen A. Fisher
Location: Kentucky USA Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 455
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Eric Myers
Location: Sacramento, CA Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Thu 22 Apr, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen A. Fisher wrote: | Eric,
These will be manufactured by CAS Iberia/ Hanwei, not by Paul Macdonald. He would have quite a large order to fill if he were.
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Hi Stephen, my understanding is that Hanwei is making some also, but separate from Paul. Albion also has similar items in their plans.
Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
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Joel Whitmore
Location: Simmesport, LA Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 6:42 am Post subject: Contacting Paul |
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Paul has some great stuff on his website and some unique items. I tried contacting Paul by e-mail before mytrip to Edinburgh last November. Craig Johnson suggested I get in touch with him. Never got a reply back from 3 or 4 e-mail tries. I would love to see the pic of his reproduction of the sword in the Wallace Monument. Alas! the pic on the website does not load. Anyone have that pic, please post it. :-)
Joel
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D. Perdue
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| Posted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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When are they for sale, and how much (ballpark)? I've been needing a pair of those Hutton sabre, and information seems kind of scarce.
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Chris Holzman
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| Posted: Fri 23 Apr, 2004 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Eric Myers wrote: | | Stephen A. Fisher wrote: | Eric,
These will be manufactured by CAS Iberia/ Hanwei, not by Paul Macdonald. He would have quite a large order to fill if he were.
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Hi Stephen, my understanding is that Hanwei is making some also, but separate from Paul. Albion also has similar items in their plans. |
Eric,
I got an email on 2nd April from Paul, confirming that these are being produced by Hanwei.
The hilts look good, although I have no desire to buy the straight blades. When the curved ones come out I'll have to give them a good test run. It looks like I'm going to be going to Blade show, and I seem to remember someone saying that they'd seen/handled these prototypes at a CAS Iberia booth somewhere...
Was that you Stephen?
I'm really hoping Albion gets a move on and get the next gen stuff done so they can repro my sabre - not that im impatient or anything. 
Later all - off to teach class. whoo-hoo.
Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Stephen A. Fisher
Location: Kentucky USA Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Chris,
That was Tom Leoni that said he had handled the prototypes at a show in Las Vegas.
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Chris Holzman
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| Posted: Sun 25 Apr, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen A. Fisher wrote: | Hi Chris,
That was Tom Leoni that said he had handled the prototypes at a show in Las Vegas. |
hopefully I might get to see them at Blade - I just can't figure out why anyone would waste their time on straight blades  s2000 blades work just fine for that. shrug. I'll reserve judgment until I see the curved bladed ones.
Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Stephen A. Fisher
Location: Kentucky USA Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Mon 26 Apr, 2004 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Holzman wrote: |
hopefully I might get to see them at Blade - I just can't figure out why anyone would waste their time on straight blades s2000 blades work just fine for that. shrug. I'll reserve judgment until I see the curved bladed ones. |
Hi Chris,
Let me know if you happen to get a look at them. I just received an email from CAS Iberia saying that they should have them available in about three months or so.
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Chris Holzman
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| Posted: Mon 26 Apr, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Stephen A. Fisher wrote: | | Chris Holzman wrote: |
hopefully I might get to see them at Blade - I just can't figure out why anyone would waste their time on straight blades s2000 blades work just fine for that. shrug. I'll reserve judgment until I see the curved bladed ones. |
Hi Chris,
Let me know if you happen to get a look at them. I just received an email from CAS Iberia saying that they should have them available in about three months or so. |
The straights, or the curved??
And yeah, I'll let ya know if I see them. I haven't finalized my Savannah/Atlanta plans yet - but hopefully I will this weekend.
Chris
Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Stephen A. Fisher
Location: Kentucky USA Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Mon 26 Apr, 2004 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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As you know, I share the same opinion as you about the straight blades. Either one really, your impressions about quality of the hilt fittings etc.
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Mario Perez
Location: Los Angeles Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu 01 Sep, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone by now yet purchased or handled one of the Hutton Sabres?
Very interested as By The Sword has a 10 percent off sale going right now and I'm contemplating picking up a pair while that's on ... if there isn't any negative feedback on them , that is.
Mario
"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are plenty of old things we don't know."
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Eric Myers
Location: Sacramento, CA Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sun 04 Sep, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| Mario Perez wrote: | Has anyone by now yet purchased or handled one of the Hutton Sabres?
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Martinez and I have both posted separate reviews to the classical fencing mailing list, but I can cross post them here if you like.
In a nutshell, we were both vastly disappointed. The blades are inconsistant, to stiff, have no foible, bend in the wrong part of the blade, and have no real temper. They feel lifeless, and the guard is too thin of gauge. Martinez returned his entire order, I plan to do some reshaping of the foible so that it bends a bit, but if I had paid full MSR I would return them also.
The Pecararos are alot nicer, but the blades don't have the right temper, and one of mine already broke after very little use. And what's the point of a Raedelli saber with a straight blade?
Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
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Mario Perez
Location: Los Angeles Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Tue 06 Sep, 2005 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Well, I suppose for a sword they sell at only 100 bucks a piece I shouldn't be surprised, but oh what a letdown all the same ...
I saw Martinez's review just now, but couldn;t find yours ... would you mind cross posting it if it's of greater deptht than what you just wrote? Thanks,
Mario
"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are plenty of old things we don't know."
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Eric Myers
Location: Sacramento, CA Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Wed 07 Sep, 2005 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Mario Perez wrote: | I saw Martinez's review just now, but couldn;t find yours ... would you mind cross posting it if it's of greater deptht than what you just wrote? Thanks,
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Apparently I posted it to Broadsword_Heavy_Sabre, not the CFML. Sorry for the confusion. Here is my original post, but please note that my opinion on the temper of the pecararo blades has changed.
"After swinging them around a bit, I decided to adjust the angle of
the grips, so that the backstrap is parallel to the Pecoraro blade
and is in line with the tip of the Hutton. The tangs are
significantly beefier than on a sport sabre, so this took a little
work, but I am pleased with the result.
The Pecoraros are fabulous. We fenced in standard gear with no extra
padding and no issues. I don't mind the soft foible, it didn't seem
too whippy to me at all. After some fencing, I think I see some
stress points where the guard may eventually collapse, but since we
used both of them, I didn't have an unused one to go back and
compare to.
The Huttons are not as nice. I'm sure the guards are too fine of
gauge, and the foible is the stiffest part of the blade, which means
the middle of the blade is what flexes. The whole temper of the
blades seems a bit soft to me as well. I will probably remove some
stock from the foible to make it a bit more flexible. Also, like
much of the Hanwei "Practical Series," the blades are just too
short. This is all frustrating, but I do think these are a step in
the right direction, and an improvement on what is otherwise
available on the market. We ain't there yet, however :-(
As for fit and finish, There was alot to be impressed about,
especially given the price of these swords. I found the fake
rayskin grips to be comfortable, but the backstrap should be a
little flatter in my opinion. The fit between backstrap and grip
varies from excellent to mediocre, but this is purely visual - it
didn't affect the use at all. 2 grips were slightly loose, but
tightening the pommel nut (it has a lock washer too!) fixed that,
and they stayed tight through bouting as well."
Eric Myers
Sacramento Sword School
ViaHup.com - Wiki di Scherma Italiana
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Mario Perez
Location: Los Angeles Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Thu 08 Sep, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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Ah, thanks for the feedback. It sounds like picking up a half dozen Hutton's would be highly premature at this stage. Maybe they'll pull off a few changes for the better with the next round ...
"There is nothing new under the sun, but there are plenty of old things we don't know."
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Chris Holzman
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| Posted: Sun 25 Sep, 2005 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Mario Perez wrote: | | Ah, thanks for the feedback. It sounds like picking up a half dozen Hutton's would be highly premature at this stage. Maybe they'll pull off a few changes for the better with the next round ... |
Mario,
Please see also my review at http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55815
In short, the Radaelli is absolutely inappropriate for Radaellian sabre work - as some of the techniques frankly *demand* a curved blade. Even if the heat treat was right, it still doesn't get the job done because of the lack of curve.
The guard is great - the grip is shaped well, but the phony fish skin has got to go - real, or plain leather, please.. even bare wood would be better.
It's unfortunate to say the least.
I thought the Hutton I got to play with was vastly better than the Radaelli, as far as the blade went, but from the sound of things, inconsistency is the word of the day.
Chris Holzman
River City Fencing Club
Wichita, KS
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Micha Hofmann
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| Posted: Tue 17 Oct, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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*Deep sigh* There really seem to be some problems with some of these saber's heat treat.
Since yesterday evening, I am the proud owner of a two-part Hanwei Hutton saber. 
It cleanly broke in two, during a normal quarte parry against a really light strike. Fortunately, it was a clean break and we immediately stopped, so there was no danger of injury.
I think that the cause for this blade failure was probably a faulty heat treat. I'll contact the guy I bought the saber from. Maybe I can get a replacement saber.
I've added some pictures of the broken saber, for those wo might want to take a look.
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Whole Saber
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Break
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Break picture 2
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